California Town Bans Smoking in Your Own Home.

[mutantdonut]

It's obviously getting worst and worst for smokers, as we are on the short list of groups it's acceptable to bully and harass on a regular basis. Being a smoker ranks up there with child molester, drunk driver, and white supremacist racist with how despised we are. I read a couple years ago that cigarettes are one of the items that companies are having added to be tested for in a drug test. If someone tests positive for cigarettes, employment is being denied simply to keep health insurance costs lower.

The long term issue with this is now a precedence has been set with insurance companies effectively get smoking criminalized... food and weight are next on deck to be pursued by the same insurance companies. Look at trans fat being removed from restaurants, and snacks like chips... New York city attempted to ban super sized cola's... soda's and sweets are being banned from schools... and some companies are already refusing to higher fat people. It's not a huge leap in my mind before sugar, caffeine, and fats are included in drug tests and it's illegal to give children under a certain age sugary treats.

My first reaction to all that was "calm down."

My second thought is that i'm having a difficult time buying into your statements, probably because you hyperbole'd everything to death.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

It's obviously getting worst and worst for smokers, as we are on the short list of groups it's acceptable to bully and harass on a regular basis. Being a smoker ranks up there with child molester, drunk driver, and white supremacist racist with how despised we are. I read a couple years ago that cigarettes are one of the items that companies are having added to be tested for in a drug test. If someone tests positive for cigarettes, employment is being denied simply to keep health insurance costs lower.

The long term issue with this is now a precedence has been set with insurance companies effectively get smoking criminalized... food and weight are next on deck to be pursued by the same insurance companies. Look at trans fat being removed from restaurants, and snacks like chips... New York city attempted to ban super sized cola's... soda's and sweets are being banned from schools... and some companies are already refusing to higher fat people. It's not a huge leap in my mind before sugar, caffeine, and fats are included in drug tests and it's illegal to give children under a certain age sugary treats.

My first reaction to all that was "calm down."

My second thought is that i'm having a difficult time buying into your statements, probably because you hyperbole'd everything to death.

Strange. There's only one sentence containing a hyperbole in his statements, same as yours.

 

[mutantdonut]

It's obviously getting worst and worst for smokers, as we are on the short list of groups it's acceptable to bully and harass on a regular basis. Being a smoker ranks up there with child molester, drunk driver, and white supremacist racist with how despised we are. I read a couple years ago that cigarettes are one of the items that companies are having added to be tested for in a drug test. If someone tests positive for cigarettes, employment is being denied simply to keep health insurance costs lower.

The long term issue with this is now a precedence has been set with insurance companies effectively get smoking criminalized... food and weight are next on deck to be pursued by the same insurance companies. Look at trans fat being removed from restaurants, and snacks like chips... New York city attempted to ban super sized cola's... soda's and sweets are being banned from schools... and some companies are already refusing to higher fat people. It's not a huge leap in my mind before sugar, caffeine, and fats are included in drug tests and it's illegal to give children under a certain age sugary treats.

My first reaction to all that was "calm down."

My second thought is that i'm having a difficult time buying into your statements, probably because you hyperbole'd everything to death.

Strange. There's only one sentence containing a hyperbole in his statements, same as yours.

:roll:

 

[Jupiter551]

This is the problem Jupiter, there is pretty much no evidence saying they're either healthy or unhealthy. It does seem that they're better than regular cigarettes, but it's really only the manufacturers who are raving about them being healthy, no one really knows all that much about them.

One of the issues with electronic cigarettes is though I think some people do use them to quit, people I know who use them tend to smoke more continuously than they would with regular cigarettes. With regular cigarettes they'd have one then wait a while to have another, with e-cigarettes they'll have a few drags every 5 minutes. I'm not sure if this makes much difference, but if they are indeed found to not be as good for you as manufacturers would lead us to believe then it'd mean you're probably inhaling considerably more than you would usually.

You can have LACK of evidence about ANYTHING. The only thing that points to is specious reasoning. Hey there's LACK OF EVIDENCE that LCD screens won't suddenly cause us to drop dead for unknown causes in the future. Better not use em.

Here's some evidence - how about millions of daily e-cigarette users who swear by them, who've felt their health improve, quit sucking cancer into their lungs, and don't need big brother to decide whether it's safe to breathe or not.

Wanna know what else supposedly has lack of evidence for its safety? Cannabis. That's the EXACT FUCKING LINE they take. There is obviously OVERWHELMING evidence but they still claim, at every court challenge to the legal status of cannabis that even after so many years and dozens of positive studies they STILL claim there's not enough evidence. It's the same line. It's the same BULLSHIT.

Lack of evidence saying they're healthy or unhealthy isn't an issue. It's bullshit. If something is unhealthy go find evidence, and no we're not worrying about what MIGHT be invisibly unhealthy now but bite us in the ass later - that's just fucking stupid and impossible to predict.

No one is saying e-cigarettes are 'healthy', they're saying CIGARETTES WILL KILL YOU. As far as we KNOW e-cigarettes are not unhealthy.

Actually they found harmful cancer causing chemicals in two top brands.

Did they really though? Which 'top brands' did they test? That study (and I wouldn't trust the FDA's objectivity as far as I could spit on them) was conducted in 2011 on two cartridges from store bought pre-assembled ecigarettes apparently. I couldn't see a name anywhere, and I've seen everything from boutique nicotine flavours made on-site in california to bulk shit imported from China. I have no idea what two 'top brands' would be - there are no 'top brands', the 'industry' such as it is is under constant attack. The kind of attack that frankly just wouldn't happen if there wasn't greasy money involved.

In any case, even if the two (wow, good job testing TWO, nice use of govt lab resources to test a massive range of TWO samples, or did none of the others come back dangerous?) really were 'popular' brands and really were harmful, well lots of things are harmful:

Reports from the Food Standards Agency have found that the known animal carcinogen acrylamide is generated in fried or overheated carbohydrate foods (such as french fries and potato chips).

It's a potential growth industry and it will attract sharks, some of them won't care what you put in your body - I mean governments COULD help this by regulating and making sure shonky operators that sell dodgy and unhealthy juice are fined and run out of business - but they don't, instead they choose to pretend these bad apples represent everyone.

Governments make me sick. They know they could never, in one swoop, legitimately suggest they should legalise and start taxing e-cigarettes at anywhere near the rate they could regular cigarettes, because the decades of history that lead to 1000%+ tax just isn't there - they also know one is a clear and direct threat to the other.

Here's the real kicker: Why there's no evidence about their health benefits - they remain borderline illegal and there's NO incentive for studies who happen to find health benefits. Same as cannabis research - for years research into health benefits has been blocked, unfunded and ignored, while research into negatives as been bankrolled, publicized and manufactured.

Course they know what they're doing, the FDA has been hand in hand with the DEA and NIDA in blocking cannabis research just like e-cigarette research.


Here's the sum total of the FDA's VAST amount of lack-of-knowledge about what ecigarettes MIGHT do or not do:

As the safety and efficacy of e-cigarettes have not been fully studied, consumers of e-cigarette products currently have no way of knowing:


whether e-cigarettes are safe for their intended use,
how much nicotine or other potentially harmful chemicals are being inhaled during use, or
if there are any benefits associated with using these products.

Additionally, it is not known if e-cigarettes may lead young people to try other tobacco products, including conventional cigarettes, which are known to cause disease and lead to premature death.

Well lemme tell you guys, from personal experience a bunch of shit the FDA apparently doesn't know:
I experienced no danger from heavy use of over a year.
I know how much fucking nicotine I was inhaling because I mixed it myself and all it was suspended in is FDA Approved food flavouring.
The FDA doesn't know if there are any benefits. Well, I quit smoking -and vaping for that matter now- saved over $1000, feel healthier than ever.

So there, I just debunked all the FDA's waffling non-committal unscientific BULLSHIT.

What the FDA doesn't know could fill an underwater fucking chasm.

Listen, you do what the fuck you want - anyone who vapes knows it's healthier, and I dumped over 20 years of heavy smoking. The FDA can suck my dick, the evidence is in whether they want to admit it or not.

 

[Bocefish]

If any of you think you truly deserve freedom then take responsibility for your actions and look out for others and not just yourselves.

Taking responsibilty for your actions is called being an adult. It's not the government's role to be a goddamn nanny to adults and regulate every fucking thing under the sun that may possibly be harmful.

"The only sure bulwark of continuing liberty is a government strong enough to protect the interests of the people, and a people strong enough and well enough informed to maintain its sovereign control over the goverment." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt