Calif. teacher with past in porn loses appeal

[Alcon]

OXNARD, Calif. (AP) — A middle school teacher who was fired after students learned she had appeared in pornography has lost her appeal to return to the classroom, her lawyer said Tuesday.
A three-judge panel unanimously decided Stacie Halas, 32, was unfit for the classroom. Halas was fired in April from her job as a science teacher at Haydock Intermediate School in Oxnard after online videos of her in porn were discovered by students and teachers.
"Although (Halas') pornography career has concluded, the ongoing availability of her pornographic materials on the Internet will continue to impede her from being an effective teacher and respected colleague," Judge Julie Cabos-Owen wrote in a 46-page decision issued Friday by the Commission on Professional Competence.

http://news.yahoo.com/calif-teacher-pas ... 27837.html

I don't know what to expect, but this makes me very angry :angry4:
Having a pornography career does NOT deprive a person of deserving of respect. Anyone old enough to understand what porn is, even if they are children, needs to learn this lesson as well.

 

[Evvie]

It makes me angry too.

Considering this is a country where religious myth is taught as scientific fact, many jobs come with a 'morality clause' that allows you to be fired for nebulous reasons like being gay, poly or pagan, only 40% of the population believes in the theory of evolution and private schools in Louisiana teach that the loch ness monster is a real dinosaur that existed 6000 years ago at the start of the world with the first man, I am absolutely not surprised at the outcome of this woman's career.

America, despite some urban centers, is not a very forward-thinking country.

 

[Red7227]

Having a pornography career does NOT deprive a person of deserving of respect. Anyone old enough to understand what porn is, even if they are children, needs to learn this lesson as well.

Shouldn't the kids have been suspended for watching porn on their mobiles at school?


This is just weird. The fact that this woman has actually lived makes her a far better role model and mentor than some vanilla teacher straight out of collage.

 

[SoTxBob]

This is also why I frequently cringe when I see another "little girl" 18-19yr old chasing dollar signs entering into camming. Many, while having become legal, most likely haven't thought much about the next phase of life/adulthood. If they decide down the road they might want to go into any child care or educational field, [or many other fields for that matter] most likely the same thing will happen as did to this teacher since the interwebz never forget. Morality clauses are a big thing nowadays and are frequently cited to get rid of upper management of corporations as well. While we here as a community are fairly nonchalant about the job and it being a facet of the porn industry, we are a very small minority of the country as a whole. Suffice it to say there's a very strong probability the choice to be in any part of the industry will effect the rest of the employment opportunities in life cycle.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

It's a difficult situation, if say a parent found this out, or another teacher then I think it'd be unfair to fire the woman. But the students finding it? Well for boys it may cause issues because well, they'll all probably start wanking over their teacher, ripping the piss or treating her like a porn star. And for girls, well, young women are impressional, if it's someone you look up to and they've done something, you do often want to do the same thing, or the idea can become a possibility.

I think teaching very young children who don't understand would be completely different, but if you were teaching teenagers I can understand why the school wouldn't want her to continue. It may seem unfair, but although I am not remotely against porn stars in the slightest (obviously), I also think porn isn't good for teenagers. I was someone who grew up watching even awesome "innocent" things like American pie, and all the boys watching porn, it did make me try and be one of those women more, in ways it felt like it was expected of me. If I had a teacher who'd done porn and it were completely accepted, I think I'd have pushed a lot more to do it.

What I don't think should happen is her not be able to work at other schools, I still think she should be given a fair reference not mentioning this. Although not sure if they mentioned her name etc in the article, so maybe that ship has sailed. That would be extremely unfair if she couldn't work anywhere again.

It is one of the risks we take doing jobs like these. ANY other job though, as in one not working with children then I would be shocked and appalled if the woman got fired.

 

[Mirra]

It is one of the risks we take doing jobs like these. ANY other job though, as in one not working with children then I would be shocked and appalled if the woman got fired.

It is a risk any woman entering into a sex trade should weigh. It's just a shame it's a risk that must be considered.

 

[LuckySmiles]

this is crap... call me crazy but i honestly believe in maybe 10, 20 years... this won't happen anymore... because by then nearly EVERYONE will have some naked image of them somehow somewhere...
Seriously though. I didn't have a cell phone or a camera when I was 15(and cell phones didn't HAVE cameras when i was 15 :whistle: ).... but today pretty much everyone does, and I'd say modestly at least half (i'd guess more) are using them for "dirty" things... (I know i would've) sooo...say out of half of those silly young people (and older people but alas the children are our future)... I'd say a portion of them piss off another person at some point who had these images and now have adult images of themselves somewhere they don't even know about... see where I'm going with this?
I don't think it's that far fetched to see progressively more and more "average" people dealing with these issues overtime, and HOPEFULLY it will lead to more and more people taking a harder look at themselves like eh... who cares... no big deal... and there will be less stories like this... BUT I'm a dreamer....
because otherwise, eventually, there might be NO hot teachers :shock:

 

[camstory]

I guess I would be angry too, if it did not make me so sad. I understand that such things are still very much playing with fire - risking the control of aspects of your future life. To say it is wrong, to know it is wrong, does nothing right now to change what is done. This is what makes me sad. It is like watching helplessly, while a bunch of blind ppl with box knifes stumble around in some great enclosed hall. With one hand groping, and a razor in the other, they just keep cutting each other, and never learn to drop the knifes.

And, I agree that both the biology, and the psychology of persons in their teens are very easily influenced. And it is exactly that, that should be the reason we move to a much more honest, healthy way of treating/teaching our children about human sexuality. It is not the things we see, and have exposure to, and learn to understand as children that causes us to behave like primal apes. It is a clear and early understanding of these things, that provided the reason to resist acting like cave ppl.

 

[mynameisbob84]

This shit irks me big time, yo. Demonising sex... what's the point?

We live in a world where the NRA have carte blanche to market a gun-based video game to four year olds but if we find out that our kids' teacher once took her clothes off in front of a camera, we go into a blind panic. It's pathetic.

 

[bob]

OXNARD, Calif. (AP) — "Although (Halas') pornography career has concluded, the ongoing availability of her pornographic materials on the Internet will continue to impede her from being an effective teacher and respected colleague," Judge Julie Cabos-Owen wrote in a 46-page decision issued Friday by the Commission on Professional Competence.

like most of the comments here have pointed out in one way or another....i always see judgments like this as being an indictment of us....not of the person victimized by our archaic attitudes.....

but since it is the current version of reality, sotx's comment is abso-rootly important...
:twocents-02cents:

 

[touchbunny]

try being gay on top of it. i can see the reasoning for being removed from your position around children, i really do. but when it's just because it makes people uncomfortable because they're biggots, it's gone too far.

honestly camming is something i considered, and the only thing it may come back to halt me in down the road is when i'm in my forties and decide yes, i really do want to become a police officer. something to handle should it arrive. it's a risk we all take, and a risk any level headed girl weighs when she steps into this field.

along these same lines, i don't know how many times you girls have gotten this, but i'm interested to hear what your responses, both vocal and emotional are to the statement:
"you could do so much better"
when on cam.

 

[Alcon]

It's a difficult situation, if say a parent found this out, or another teacher then I think it'd be unfair to fire the woman. But the students finding it? Well for boys it may cause issues because well, they'll all probably start wanking over their teacher, ripping the piss or treating her like a porn star. And for girls, well, young women are impressional, if it's someone you look up to and they've done something, you do often want to do the same thing, or the idea can become a possibility.

I think teaching very young children who don't understand would be completely different, but if you were teaching teenagers I can understand why the school wouldn't want her to continue. It may seem unfair, but although I am not remotely against porn stars in the slightest (obviously), I also think porn isn't good for teenagers. I was someone who grew up watching even awesome "innocent" things like American pie, and all the boys watching porn, it did make me try and be one of those women more, in ways it felt like it was expected of me. If I had a teacher who'd done porn and it were completely accepted, I think I'd have pushed a lot more to do it.

What I don't think should happen is her not be able to work at other schools, I still think she should be given a fair reference not mentioning this. Although not sure if they mentioned her name etc in the article, so maybe that ship has sailed. That would be extremely unfair if she couldn't work anywhere again.

It is one of the risks we take doing jobs like these. ANY other job though, as in one not working with children then I would be shocked and appalled if the woman got fired.

Isabella, I feel you. I have some asexual tendencies myself so I HATE HATE it when people act as if you must be sexual all the time and this is what determines how successful you are as a person, especially when you are young. Because not everyone is in the mainstream.

But I just think firing this teacher sends a really bad message to kids like... if you are in porn, you don't deserve respect, there's no way you can be a role model. When people (usually feminists) say, "oh porn is degrading women" I think, no its not, its not hurting anyone just having fun...or its just a fantasy. I have had great experiences on MFC. But when things like this come out I can see where they're coming from, a lot of people have this attitude.

 

[Red7227]

try being gay on top of it. i can see the reasoning for being removed from your position around children, i really do. but when it's just because it makes people uncomfortable because they're biggots, it's gone too far.

honestly camming is something i considered, and the only thing it may come back to halt me in down the road is when i'm in my forties and decide yes, i really do want to become a police officer. something to handle should it arrive. it's a risk we all take, and a risk any level headed girl weighs when she steps into this field.

along these same lines, i don't know how many times you girls have gotten this, but i'm interested to hear what your responses, both vocal and emotional are to the statement:
"you could do so much better"
when on cam.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

This shit irks me big time, yo. Demonising sex... what's the point?

We live in a world where the NRA have carte blanche to market a gun-based video game to four year olds but if we find out that our kids' teacher once took her clothes off in front of a camera, we go into a blind panic. It's pathetic.

But porn isn't sex. I mean yes, it is, but it's not sex in its true form. Porn is, well, perverted. That's why we love it! We are all naturally perverts!
As much as I am not a major fan of guns and don't support the NRA, I also personally feel that I've never been that fussed by war films, video games etc, they're there, but they're never really effected me negatively. Same as kids play fight naturally, although some kids do experiment, they don't start fucking each other for fun when they're little. They do fight with each other. When I've seen sexual images as a child they have effected me, and I've been VERY interested in them. There's natural nudity, which as a child it didn't bother me, and then there are sexual pictures, they are VERY different things. I don't think children should see sexual images- especially of the porn variety.
I also think that porn gives kids/teenagers a very warped idea of sex.

Now I grew up in a culture where we had LOTS of sex education, sex wasn't something particularly shied away from. I had absolutely no religious influence growing up or in school either, so neither am I panicking or trying to fight the system. If this teacher had made a sex tape with a boyfriend that had been released, that would be a very different thing, it'd be forgivable, but a professional porn video, once that sort of thing is released and everyone knows about it, then sad as this is for that woman, it was her decision to make that video/videos, she must have known the consequences of it beforehand, it's not worth risking damage to the children and the school.

When people (usually feminists) say, "oh porn is degrading women" I think, no its not, its not hurting anyone just having fun...or its just a fantasy.

Well that's the thing, it's not the women having fun, or even the women's fantasy, it's for men. So yeah, it is kind of degrading to women depending on the type of porn. Camming is different because generally it's all our rules, we do what we want, ban people who are rude etc. Most porn I see the whole point of the porn is degrading the woman, making her as much a bitch as possible, fucking her in ways that cannot actually be pleasurable for her etc.
I don't think porn is going to like, ruin feminism, it really doesn't bother me. But it's not something that children should see or really be near. Sadly they will be, but I don't think they should have the actual star of the show in the classroom. You're talking the boys being distracted because now they're thinking of the woman as a sex object, the girls being distracted and upset with the teacher because all the boys are comparing them to the teacher/porn stars. Boys fancying the woman more and having painful crushes. Jeeze, if you were in school and then watched a hot porn film of your teacher being fucked, surely you'd start getting different ideas...

I also think, no, porn stars generally shouldn't be role models for children... but I don't think it's about that, or even that they shouldn't be given respect, it's that if the teacher stays at the school, that's all EVERYONE is going to be talking about for years and years and years, it's going to cause issues. If she has to leave, people will talk about it for like half a year, then it'll come up every now and then, but they'll get over it, it won't be a big deal.

 

[touchbunny]

red you're a doll.

and fuck everybody else is pretty much my motto in life. i handle stuff like this fine because i've dealt with enough bullying and shit in my lifetime to shrug off bullets like colossus. (however i have to say that may be part of the reason i don't play well with people and don't get along well with ladies. been burned one too many times. so being here is a little difficult for me but i'm tryin' to be all... a person and shit.) but you generally come to expect the worst from people because of stuff like this, which... well... sucks.

just wanted to see how other girls felt after 'you could do better'. because its generally a pretty unexpected thing to hear amidst the normal idle chatter.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

Porn is a CHOICE, let's get that straight. Being gay is NOT, so no one should ever compare the two. Whether we like it or not, not everyone respects adult workers, and that, IMO, is okay. Respect is EARNED, you are not entitled to it because you are a fucking human. And if you come from a background of porn, if you smoke pot (a pretty friendly drug), if you are covered in tattoos, you made the choice to make it hard on yourself for people to get to know you and find out if you are respectable. Sure, it sucks a little. But we all judge. It's human nature. Am I going to hire a thugged out looking guy to come fix my sink? Fuck no! Is that wrong? Maybe. Does it happen all of the time? Yes. Will it ever change? No. So choose your actions carefully as they reflect upon your appearance to others and deem how much respect you will be given.

 

[touchbunny]

Porn is a CHOICE, let's get that straight. Being gay is NOT, so no one should ever compare the two. Whether we like it or not, not everyone respects adult workers, and that, IMO, is okay. Respect is EARNED, you are not entitled to it because you are a fucking human. And if you come from a background of porn, if you smoke pot (a pretty friendly drug), if you are covered in tattoos, you made the choice to make it hard on yourself for people to get to know you and find out if you are respectable. Sure, it sucks a little. But we all judge. It's human nature. Am I going to hire a thugged out looking guy to come fix my sink? Fuck no! Is that wrong? Maybe. Does it happen all of the time? Yes. Will it ever change? No. So choose your actions carefully as they reflect upon your appearance to others and deem how much respect you will be given.

true fact, so it burns even more when doors that wouldn't be closed in my face for camming are closed because of being gay. people don't see it like that though, and in the end, people will always shy away from anything different. psychologically and on a primal level, i think it's primarily self preservation and defense. whatever it is, it sucks and i doubt in my lifetime it'll change too startlingly.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

along these same lines, i don't know how many times you girls have gotten this, but i'm interested to hear what your responses, both vocal and emotional are to the statement:
"you could do so much better"
when on cam.

All of the time. Couldn't everyone, though? If everyone worked harder, studied harder, maybe we could all be scientists right now. But the guy asking the question is no scientist. No. He works in retail, contributing just as much to society as we are. Except, we make more money. So we pay more taxes. So in the end, it is really him who could be doing so much better.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

true fact, so it burns even more when doors that wouldn't be closed in my face for camming are closed because of being gay. people don't see it like that though, and in the end, people will always shy away from anything different. psychologically and on a primal level, i think it's primarily self preservation and defense. whatever it is, it sucks and i doubt in my lifetime it'll change too startlingly.

Ugh, I know it happens, but I still absolutely cannot believe that people would close doors on someone for being gay! That's just.... ugh!!! I know a lot of gay people, and I've NEVER seen or heard of them being discriminated like this! In school you get homophobic abuse, I actually got a LOT of it even though I'm straight because I kissed a few girls and thought I was bi. But jeeze, once you get older, I haven't seen or heard of any of this crap since!
That's the thing, being gay is something personal, that you do in your own home, just like sex. Well, it is sex, just with someone from the same sex. It's non of anyone's business. Soon as you do porn, you make it someone's business.

If an ex porn star were doing say, sex education, or trying to teach children the negative effects, then that might be different, but with a normal teacher with it having no relevance, it's really not appropriate.

 

[touchbunny]

All of the time. Couldn't everyone, though? If everyone worked harder, studied harder, maybe we could all be scientists right now. But the guy asking the question is no scientist. No. He works in retail, contributing just as much to society as we are. Except, we make more money. So we pay more taxes. So in the end, it is really him who could be doing so much better.

dude- (sorry for my overuse of dude), actually i have to say, i probably couldn't be better. this is the first time in my life i've been able to support myself financially while having time to pursue my art. being a starving artist/writer with her own plate of unpalatable issues, i can honestly say that i'm arguably in the best place i've ever been in my short 22 years. so the poor sap that said that to me certainly got an earful, lol.

but i agree completely. too many people are content to waste away behind a cash register, but when it comes to porn they get on a high horse because at least what they're doing they think is more... i don't even know. what the hell do they think it is? better?

and @isabella, i know. its hard to believe that in this day and age these sorts of things are still the biggest obstacles that so many people have to face.

 

[LuckySmiles]

But we all judge. It's human nature. Am I going to hire a thugged out looking guy to come fix my sink? Fuck no! Is that wrong? Maybe. Does it happen all of the time? Yes. Will it ever change? No. So choose your actions carefully as they reflect upon your appearance to others and deem how much respect you will be given.

I have to hardcore disagree with part of this. People might always be judgemental, but I think what is deemed "professional" is constantly evolving. Porn to school teacher may be too far at different ends of the spectrum to be realistic in today's society, and may never be. BUT there plenty of other stigmas that were deemed "unprofessional" 20 and 30 years ago that are no big deal anymore.
Examples... when i was 18 i had my tongue pierced... i was afraid to show my mom and when I did she was like oh yeah? my friend "jackie" the nurse has her tongue pierced. And this was 10 years ago. At the time, and since then, it's seemed to be more and more common for doctors and nurses to be into tattoos and piercings (maybes it's all the neeedles ) These are respected professional people, who are respected now that may not have been 30 years ago for having these things.
(smaller example same idea, I'll use a fake name to make it easier to explain)...
My mother named me my real name let's say it's Jennifer. (it isn't) But only did so because she liked the nick name "Jenny" She couldn't imagine naming me just "Jenny" on my birth certificate because what if when I grew up I wanted to be a Doctor or something? and "Dr. Jenny" would sound less professional than "Dr. Jennifer"
This was common practice 30 years ago. Have we seen the names that people are naming there children NOW? Do you think it's going to keep people from becoming doctors? Does anyone care any more what their brain surgeon's first name is? If they're qualified to cut up a brain isn't that more important? At worst we might think "wow, Dr. Apple's mom was an idiot"
My point is what is deemed professional is constantly evolving and changing. And, eventually, what was far too taboo or risque, becomes common practice. People will probably still shun someone in 20 years who chose to do a couple porn things at 19,and be a kindergarten teacher at 40. BUT they might also have a heart, and realize 5 year olds don't watch porn, and most people they know, including themselves, have some lewd things on video. We can't really say. Should you be 100% knowledgable and ok about the possible implications of doing something like porn, on any future careers? Absolutely! But at the same time there is a chance, be it small, that one day, people won't give a fuuuu

 

[mynameisbob84]

This shit irks me big time, yo. Demonising sex... what's the point?

We live in a world where the NRA have carte blanche to market a gun-based video game to four year olds but if we find out that our kids' teacher once took her clothes off in front of a camera, we go into a blind panic. It's pathetic.

But porn isn't sex. I mean yes, it is, but it's not sex in its true form. Porn is, well, perverted. That's why we love it! We are all naturally perverts!
As much as I am not a major fan of guns and don't support the NRA, I also personally feel that I've never been that fussed by war films, video games etc, they're there, but they're never really effected me negatively. Same as kids play fight naturally, although some kids do experiment, they don't start fucking each other for fun when they're little. They do fight with each other. When I've seen sexual images as a child they have effected me, and I've been VERY interested in them. There's natural nudity, which as a child it didn't bother me, and then there are sexual pictures, they are VERY different things. I don't think children should see sexual images- especially of the porn variety.
I also think that porn gives kids/teenagers a very warped idea of sex.

Now I grew up in a culture where we had LOTS of sex education, sex wasn't something particularly shied away from. I had absolutely no religious influence growing up or in school either, so neither am I panicking or trying to fight the system. If this teacher had made a sex tape with a boyfriend that had been released, that would be a very different thing, it'd be forgivable, but a professional porn video, once that sort of thing is released and everyone knows about it, then sad as this is for that woman, it was her decision to make that video/videos, she must have known the consequences of it beforehand, it's not worth risking damage to the children and the school.

You're talking the boys being distracted because now they're thinking of the woman as a sex object, the girls being distracted and upset with the teacher because all the boys are comparing them to the teacher/porn stars. Boys fancying the woman more and having painful crushes. Jeeze, if you were in school and then watched a hot porn film of your teacher being fucked, surely you'd start getting different ideas...

Ultimately, things like this do demonise sex. We're telling kids from a young age that sex is bad. When the teacher gets fired because she shot a porno 20 years ago, I'd be very surprised if the parents took their kids aside and explained to them the differences between kinky porno sex and everyday sex between regular couples. It tells kids that the sex industry is an inherently bad thing, and by extension, so is sex. It tells kids that anybody who has sex regularly is a slut, that prostitutes are to be looked down upon, that porn stars are lesser people, that cam girls are whores... and since most of the (recognisable) porn actors are women, there's something to be said for society's anti-porn stance feeding into the misogny that's still a huge part of our culture. Young boys being taught from an early and impressionable age that the women they're jerking off to in their bedrooms are somehow inferior to the rest of society... is it any wonder they grow up not respecting women?

As for the boys being distracted in class by the teacher and fantasizing about her... if the kids are at an age where they're watching porn and noticing other girls, that's gonna happen if she's an attractive woman regardless of whether there's a porno involved. :twocents-02cents:

 

[PlayboyMegan]

But we all judge. It's human nature. Am I going to hire a thugged out looking guy to come fix my sink? Fuck no! Is that wrong? Maybe. Does it happen all of the time? Yes. Will it ever change? No. So choose your actions carefully as they reflect upon your appearance to others and deem how much respect you will be given.

I have to hardcore disagree with part of this. People might always be judgemental, but I think what is deemed "professional" is constantly evolving. Porn to school teacher may be too far at different ends of the spectrum to be realistic in today's society, and may never be. BUT there plenty of other stigmas that were deemed "unprofessional" 20 and 30 years ago that are no big deal anymore.
Examples... when i was 18 i had my tongue pierced... i was afraid to show my mom and when I did she was like oh yeah? my friend "jackie" the nurse has her tongue pierced. And this was 10 years ago. At the time, and since then, it's seemed to be more and more common for doctors and nurses to be into tattoos and piercings (maybes it's all the neeedles ) These are respected professional people, who are respected now that may not have been 30 years ago for having these things.
(smaller example same idea, I'll use a fake name to make it easier to explain)...
My mother named me my real name let's say it's Jennifer. (it isn't) But only did so because she liked the nick name "Jenny" She couldn't imagine naming me just "Jenny" on my birth certificate because what if when I grew up I wanted to be a Doctor or something? and "Dr. Jenny" would sound less professional than "Dr. Jennifer"
This was common practice 30 years ago. Have we seen the names that people are naming there children NOW? Do you think it's going to keep people from becoming doctors? Does anyone care any more what their brain surgeon's first name is? If they're qualified to cut up a brain isn't that more important? At worst we might think "wow, Dr. Apple's mom was an idiot"
My point is what is deemed professional is constantly evolving and changing. And, eventually, what was far too taboo or risque, becomes common practice. People will probably still shun someone in 20 years who chose to do a couple porn things at 19,and be a kindergarten teacher at 40. BUT they might also have a heart, and realize 5 year olds don't watch porn, and most people they know, including themselves, have some lewd things on video. We can't really say. Should you be 100% knowledgable and ok about the possible implications of doing something like porn, on any future careers? Absolutely! But at the same time there is a chance, be it small, that one day, people won't give a fuuuu

Yes, things are evolving, but I think people will find new things to shun and judge people over. The judging will never stop, just the things they are judging people for will change.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

Ultimately, things like this do demonise sex. We're telling kids from a young age that sex is bad. When the teacher gets fired because she shot a porno 20 years ago, I'd be very surprised if the parents took their kids aside and explained to them the differences between kinky porno sex and everyday sex between regular couples. It tells kids that the sex industry is an inherently bad thing, and by extension, so is sex. It tells kids that anybody who has sex regularly is a slut, that prostitutes are to be looked down upon, that porn stars are lesser people, that cam girls are whores... and since most of the (recognisable) porn actors are women, there's something to be said for society's anti-porn stance feeding into the misogny that's still a huge part of our culture. Young boys being taught from an early and impressionable age that the women they're jerking off to in their bedrooms are somehow inferior to the rest of society... is it any wonder they grow up not respecting women?

I see your point, but I also think you're way over exaggerating. A lot of women don't like porn/prostitution, a lot of men don't like it either (less though), yet they still enjoy healthy sex lives.
I also don't know what you were taught as a kid, but I was never taught that porn stars/actresses were somehow bad because people liked to wank over them. Just that my mother didn't want me to become one, and that there were a lot of health risks involved.

We're talking about 12-16 year olds, teenagers. I don't know how old you are, but I'm only 22 and can vividly remember being that age, and I still know plenty of kids around that age. They are NOT stupid. They can make their minds up for themselves. What they are is impressionable. They don't need things like porn rubbed in their faces.

You know why a lot of women don't like porn? Because men often set their standards on women they see in porn films. People can say that's not true, but it is. Lads magazines, porn etc, boys are being shown these beautiful women, and are setting unrealistic standards. A lot of teenagers also see stuff in porn and want to do that with the girl. Seeing as a lot of stuff in porn is actually painful to a normal woman/not pleasurable, and often just degrading, not surprising that women aren't that thrilled.
But... teenage girls also become a little bit obsessed with boys. More and more teenage girls are aspiring to be like these women, dressing like them, wearing dreadful amounts of make-up and stuffing their bras, and doing things they wouldn't normally do.
Now, men may like porn, and be very accepting of it, I like porn too, and also accept it, but this is not how I'd like it to be for my children, or in fact any children.
These things aren't demonising sex, they're demonising selling sex/commercialising it.

 

[mynameisbob84]

Ultimately, things like this do demonise sex. We're telling kids from a young age that sex is bad. When the teacher gets fired because she shot a porno 20 years ago, I'd be very surprised if the parents took their kids aside and explained to them the differences between kinky porno sex and everyday sex between regular couples. It tells kids that the sex industry is an inherently bad thing, and by extension, so is sex. It tells kids that anybody who has sex regularly is a slut, that prostitutes are to be looked down upon, that porn stars are lesser people, that cam girls are whores... and since most of the (recognisable) porn actors are women, there's something to be said for society's anti-porn stance feeding into the misogny that's still a huge part of our culture. Young boys being taught from an early and impressionable age that the women they're jerking off to in their bedrooms are somehow inferior to the rest of society... is it any wonder they grow up not respecting women?

I see your point, but I also think you're way over exaggerating. A lot of women don't like porn/prostitution, a lot of men don't like it either (less though), yet they still enjoy healthy sex lives.
I also don't know what you were taught as a kid, but I was never taught that porn stars/actresses were somehow bad because people liked to wank over them. Just that my mother didn't want me to become one, and that there were a lot of health risks involved.

We're talking about 12-16 year olds, teenagers. I don't know how old you are, but I'm only 22 and can vividly remember being that age, and I still know plenty of kids around that age. They are NOT stupid. They can make their minds up for themselves. What they are is impressionable. They don't need things like porn rubbed in their faces.

You know why a lot of women don't like porn? Because men often set their standards on women they see in porn films. People can say that's not true, but it is. Lads magazines, porn etc, boys are being shown these beautiful women, and are setting unrealistic standards. A lot of teenagers also see stuff in porn and want to do that with the girl. Seeing as a lot of stuff in porn is actually painful to a normal woman/not pleasurable, and often just degrading, not surprising that women aren't that thrilled.
But... teenage girls also become a little bit obsessed with boys. More and more teenage girls are aspiring to be like these women, dressing like them, wearing dreadful amounts of make-up and stuffing their bras, and doing things they wouldn't normally do.
Now, men may like porn, and be very accepting of it, I like porn too, and also accept it, but this is not how I'd like it to be for my children, or in fact any children.
These things aren't demonising sex, they're demonising selling sex/commercialising it.

It's not that kids are explicitly told "porn stars are bad". It's implied by things like them being sacked from their jobs as a result of them having sex for money. There's a stigma attached to the porn industry, and it's things like this that contribute to that stigma.

When I was 12-16 (I'm 28 now) I (and the kids I knew) were dumb as fuck, and impressionable to boot I don't think it's any coincidence that misogynist attitudes start to develop in a lot of males in their teens. It's around that age that they first start looking at porn and they become exposed to this stigma that's attached to women in porn.
And at that age, they're not learning that commerciality of sex is a bad thing, their learning that sex is a dirty thing. How many girls do you know of who were branded a slut as soon as they started having sex? I knew many. They weren't selling sex, they were merely having it. And yet they were uniformly chastised for it.

I'm not suggesting that porn stars being removed from teaching positions is the sole reason for misogynist attitudes but it certainly exacerbates the situation :twocents-02cents:

 

[Red7227]

When I was 12-16 (I'm 28 now) I (and the kids I knew) were dumb as fuck, and impressionable to boot I don't think it's any coincidence that misogynist attitudes start to develop in a lot of males in their teens. It's around that age that they first start looking at porn and they become exposed to this stigma that's attached to women in porn.

Sweetie, you were a boy, of course you were as dumb as fuck at that age.

Stigmas like a past job orr religion or orientation are a fact of life, just not a good fact of life. I'm trying very hard to see what is wrong, but I just can't see anything wrong with a teacher having a career as a porn actress. Its going to be hard on her as the stories go round each new intake, but kids ask questions, and they are usually fucking hard questions, and she is the only person who will be able to answer the "does penis size matter?" or "is my vagina too small?" questions with a straight face and some authority. As a parent I would demand an ex porn actress or actor for sex ed (or Sasha Grey only if I could attend all the classes too) There is so much bullshit about STDs, casual sex, ATM, BJs and other crap that it would be nice to have someone who can answer with authority.

I suspect I'm in the minority here, but I just spent a weekend away with a 5 yo and 2 yo. The two year old and just discovered that playing with his penis feels good and spent most of the time with his pants around his ankles playing with his willie, so my view on the need for sex ed might be a little distorted at the moment

 

[SatanJonez]

Why people in the U.S. are conditioned to fear sex more than violence is far beyond my understanding & I've lived here my entire life. We must look completely ridiculous to other countries when shit like this happens.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

So did anyone watch her suck a cock through a pizza box?! I'm dying!!!! :lol:

 

[camstory]

Ultimately, things like this do demonise sex. We're telling kids from a young age that sex is bad. When the teacher gets fired because she shot a porno 20 years ago, I'd be very surprised if the parents took their kids aside and explained to them the differences between kinky porno sex and everyday sex between regular couples. It tells kids that the sex industry is an inherently bad thing, and by extension, so is sex. It tells kids that anybody who has sex regularly is a slut, that prostitutes are to be looked down upon, that porn stars are lesser people, that cam girls are whores... and since most of the (recognisable) porn actors are women, there's something to be said for society's anti-porn stance feeding into the misogny that's still a huge part of our culture. Young boys being taught from an early and impressionable age that the women they're jerking off to in their bedrooms are somehow inferior to the rest of society... is it any wonder they grow up not respecting women?

I see your point, but I also think you're way over exaggerating. A lot of women don't like porn/prostitution, a lot of men don't like it either (less though), yet they still enjoy healthy sex lives.
I also don't know what you were taught as a kid, but I was never taught that porn stars/actresses were somehow bad because people liked to wank over them. Just that my mother didn't want me to become one, and that there were a lot of health risks involved.

We're talking about 12-16 year olds, teenagers. I don't know how old you are, but I'm only 22 and can vividly remember being that age, and I still know plenty of kids around that age. They are NOT stupid. They can make their minds up for themselves. What they are is impressionable. They don't need things like porn rubbed in their faces.

You know why a lot of women don't like porn? Because men often set their standards on women they see in porn films. People can say that's not true, but it is. Lads magazines, porn etc, boys are being shown these beautiful women, and are setting unrealistic standards. A lot of teenagers also see stuff in porn and want to do that with the girl. Seeing as a lot of stuff in porn is actually painful to a normal woman/not pleasurable, and often just degrading, not surprising that women aren't that thrilled.
But... teenage girls also become a little bit obsessed with boys. More and more teenage girls are aspiring to be like these women, dressing like them, wearing dreadful amounts of make-up and stuffing their bras, and doing things they wouldn't normally do.
Now, men may like porn, and be very accepting of it, I like porn too, and also accept it, but this is not how I'd like it to be for my children, or in fact any children.
These things aren't demonising sex, they're demonising selling sex/commercialising it.

It's not that kids are explicitly told "porn stars are bad". It's implied by things like them being sacked from their jobs as a result of them having sex for money. There's a stigma attached to the porn industry, and it's things like this that contribute to that stigma.

When I was 12-16 (I'm 28 now) I (and the kids I knew) were dumb as fuck, and impressionable to boot I don't think it's any coincidence that misogynist attitudes start to develop in a lot of males in their teens. It's around that age that they first start looking at porn and they become exposed to this stigma that's attached to women in porn.
And at that age, they're not learning that commerciality of sex is a bad thing, their learning that sex is a dirty thing. How many girls do you know of who were branded a slut as soon as they started having sex? I knew many. They weren't selling sex, they were merely having it. And yet they were uniformly chastised for it.

I'm not suggesting that porn stars being removed from teaching positions is the sole reason for misogynist attitudes but it certainly exacerbates the situation :twocents-02cents:

I'm on the dam touchscreen tablet, or I'd be hot on this one. I think every post you have made here expresses my sentiments very well. This backwards idea that we protect our children labeling any bit of the nature of human sexuality as bad, is just wrong - for all concerned. If we worry the child may be confused by something they have or will be exposed to, ( and porn certainly fits that bill), why does it not make sense that we spend the time to explain, and help the child understand that which is confusing to them. It is what we do with other things that are beyond their current level of understanding, and has confused them. Some heavy shit, like porn, is not going to be fully unexplainable to a young child who was shown an internet clip by his ignorant 13 YO cousin, of the science teacher his school had just fired. But we explain as best we can, and it is a process of learning like anything else heavy. So when that child is 13 he will not be ignorant like his cousin. And in fact, if he/she has been taught well enough, and understand clearly, that a liked teacher who once did something else for a living is about to be fired from a job she has done well, they might be of strong enough character to stand up and say just how stupid the whole notion is. Respect is not about what you did, or do to make a living - it's about who you are. If what did, or do does not affect me or mine in a detrimental way, and you are at peace with it, than why shouldn't I be? If you are doing a good job teaching my child, than I don't feel it is my, or anyone else's concern what you did before. If the concerns of other's, or the disruptive influences of ignorant students has created an environment in which you can no longer do your job well, than those influences should be dismissed, not the teacher. I understand these thoughts don't fit the current reality, but they are ultimately correct.


If our young child was exposed to another heavy, suicide, because a neighbor killed themself, and was confused by it. Would it make sense to tell the child, forget about it that person was just a bad person? I don't think it would, even in the light of the fact that the child might not yet be able to fully understand. It seems it would make sense to explain as best as we could and start the learning process toward later clear understanding.

And Megan, I think, and hope you are wrong, that ppl will always find things to judge other's on. And that it is part of human nature, does not mean we have no choice but obey it.

 

[camstory]

Oh, and one more idealistic notion. The only person's respect one should truly care to have, is that of their own. If you deserve that respect, you will have other's.