Boston Explosions

[Bocefish]

Good to see Bostonians smiling again. :thumbleft:

 

[Just Me]

Fuck arresting this guy.

I want to see his lifeless, bullet ridden body laying in a massive pool of his own blood.

Then I don't ever want to hear another God damned word about him.

I don't want to hear their parents say "They were such good boys. We don't know how they ever could have done this." I don't want to hear their high school friends say "They were such nice quiet guys in school and never caused any problems. I can't believe they did this." I don't want to hear bleeding heart liberals saying "How have we failed as a society to let these kids grow up to become such monsters. Where did we go wrong?".

I want to hear about the people that lost their lives, the people maimed for the rest of their lives, the people injured.

I want to hear about the brave people that ran towards the explosions and helped rescue the injured.

I want to hear about the lives of the brave law enforcement officers that died and were injured fighting these guys.

I want to hear about the families whose loved ones are never coming home again.


These two guys I don't ever want to see again or hear their names spoken again.

May death come quickly to the last guy and may they both be forgotten.

I understand the feeling but I could not disagree with you more. I am glad they captured him alive. I hope he will get a fair trial.

While I do not want to hear about the brother and him for the many months/years it will take for the judicial system to run its course, this is still the United States of America and until he is proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt he should be afforded all rights. Those rights are not protect the guilty but to protect all of us from overzealous police, media and courts.

 

[Airwolfe]

I hope an angry mob jerks him out of the car on the way to the police station and beats him to death.

 

[Mirra]

I hope an angry mob jerks him out of the car on the way to the police station and beats him to death.

This and your other post make my skin crawl. If he had been killed resisting arrest that's one thing. I would have only been slightly upset that investigators didn't have any chance to try and get information from him. Now that he has been captured alive whatever rights we all expect for ourselves MUST be given to him up until the point he is proven guilty. To borrow from an NFL coach, if he is who we thought he was then by all means let's hope he receives the closest thing to justice that we can provide. Otherwise, please cool the jets on your gruesome bloodlust. We need to less hatred and intolerance in the world not to fight fire with fire.

 

[camstory]

The older brother had strong political views about the United States, said Albrecht Ammon, 18, a downstairs-apartment neighbor in Cambridge. Ammon quoted Tsarnaev as saying that the U.S. uses the Bible as "an excuse for invading other countries."

My God, how could any one believe that?

 

[Airwolfe]

This is what I have to say about them two sons of bitches.

Die mother fucking terrorist die mother fucking terrorist die!

 

[Bocefish]

Now that he has been captured alive whatever rights we all expect for ourselves MUST be given to him up until the point he is proven guilty.

Not if he is considered an enemy combatant. He will get no Miranda rights (which he has not received) nor afforded counsel and could be held for the duration of the conflict. Radical Islamic terrorists should NOT be afforded the same rights as far as I'm concerned. I don't even know why he applied for American citizenship.

 

[lordmagellan]

The older brother had strong political views about the United States, said Albrecht Ammon, 18, a downstairs-apartment neighbor in Cambridge. Ammon quoted Tsarnaev as saying that the U.S. uses the Bible as "an excuse for invading other countries."

My God, how could any one believe that?

Oh, I don't know....


There have been many reports of evangelicals proselytizing in the military and "unofficially" holding atheist back from advancement. Is it the same today? Maybe, doesn't matter when you're dealing with a people who may not have access to current media coverage. Add to that at least one soldier using their holiest of books for target practice? It's not really a stretch to come to that conclusion.

I hope an angry mob jerks him out of the car on the way to the police station and beats him to death.

As far as this is concerned, it conjures an image in my head: a stairway leading up to "progress" that a few people can walk up and get to, but at the bottom there's all these idiots running in circles doing things to each other for nothing more than revenge. You see when things are done only for revenge, you impede progress; you only move in a circle. Sure, you can keep fighting and prove how "bad-ass" you are and eventually, if you're lucky, you'll be the last one standing and move up those stairs. But really, by the time that happens, you might just find yourself too paralyzed to make your way up.

 

[Mirra]

I assumed cam's post was dripping with irony and/or sarcasm.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I assumed cam's post was dripping with irony and/or sarcasm.

it was.

 

[EmilyConrad]

I'm getting tired of seeing people feel bad for the younger brother. Feel bad for the victims who are either no longer with us or are forever scarred, either physically, emotionally, or both. I'm sure his brother did have a huge influence over him but if any of my siblings suggested something so crazy to me I wouldn't do it just because they are older than I am. I would report them to the authorities. People are saying his life is over now at just 19 and how they feel bad for him. Okay.. what about the 8 year old who died at the hands of the brothers? What about HIS life? I do not feel bad for either brother whatsoever. They CHOSE their fate. Dzhokhar inflicted just as much pain as Tamerlan, whether he was the mastermind or not.

... this is of course assuming they are guilty. I believe they are but... ya know. Just had to say that.

 

[lordmagellan]

I assumed cam's post was dripping with irony and/or sarcasm.

Oh most likely. I have little doubt it was.

 

[camstory]

I assumed cam's post was dripping with irony and/or sarcasm.

it was.

Nothing justifies the expression of hatred that were the bombs in Boston. I just think there are factors to consider when trying to understand why these things happen, rather than writing it off to the actions of crazy fanatics. Which they are, but if we hope to understand why they are, I think we need to consider the actions of our government, and their unofficial tendency of invoking a christian god as our cheer leader, or as the moral authority that justifies all our thug actions. And lets drop the crazy, it is not necessary, - being fanatical is a form of crazy. To be fanatical, means being so focused on a thing, so completely, that you can not see the whole picture, or anything close. It is, to be possessed by a single-minded zeal. When that "single-minded zeal" is focused, and driven by hatred, it is the worst kind of unhealthy, and potentially very dangerous.

I like LordM's metaphor of hatred, and the hatred of vengeance, running us in circles. I had thought to reply to Airwolfs fanatic like expression of his own hatred, by suggesting in at least one way he is very much like those who he feels so much hate for. I thought I would also suggest that, that sort hatred only ends up being a weapon of self destruction, and in the long run hurts us much more than those who we hate. "Blind vengeance", "Blinded by hatred", "unable to see past his anger", "blind rage", are why we can't see past our vicious, non-progressive circles. IMhO.

I hope the above does not sound anything like a sympathetic stance on the truly sad and awful shit that happened in Boston, or toward any sort of hate. I just feel the path away from such senseless hurt, is that, which heads off toward love, not hate.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...

 

[trotskyleon]

an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...

But to forgive..is what makes us different.

I dont know what this 18yr old and his brother have been through. But its not an easy thing to do and throw your life like that. A series of events in the past have led to this no doubt about that. Of course there is no justification for killing innocent people.

This type of "attack" is just beyond belief, it was clearly targeted at innocent people. It wasn't at the church, government or any other body.

 

[Just Me]

Now that he has been captured alive whatever rights we all expect for ourselves MUST be given to him up until the point he is proven guilty.

Not if he is considered an enemy combatant. He will get no Miranda rights (which he has not received) nor afforded counsel and could be held for the duration of the conflict. Radical Islamic terrorists should NOT be afforded the same rights as far as I'm concerned. I don't even know why he applied for American citizenship.

If they consider him an enemy combatant then he should be afforded all rights and privileges that the Geneva Conventions give to p.o.w's. I find Guantanamo and holding people without due process indefinitely to be an affront to my rights. If we allow the moral high ground to be taken away in the name of "safety", then we have no ground to stand on.

 

[lordmagellan]

an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...

But to forgive..is what makes us different.

I dont know what this 18yr old and his brother have been through. But its not an easy thing to do and throw your life like that. A series of events in the past have led to this no doubt about that. Of course there is no justification for killing innocent people.

This type of "attack" is just beyond belief, it was clearly targeted at innocent people. It wasn't at the church, government or any other body.

I'm curious... why did you put the word attack in quotes? Not trying to start a debate, just curious as to why.

 

[LadyLuna]

an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...

But to forgive..is what makes us different.

I dont know what this 18yr old and his brother have been through. But its not an easy thing to do and throw your life like that. A series of events in the past have led to this no doubt about that. Of course there is no justification for killing innocent people.

This type of "attack" is just beyond belief, it was clearly targeted at innocent people. It wasn't at the church, government or any other body.

I'm curious... why did you put the word attack in quotes? Not trying to start a debate, just curious as to why.

Is a trap the same thing as an attack? If no, does this seem more like a trap or like an attack to you?

 

[Nordling]

an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind...

But to forgive..is what makes us different.

I dont know what this 18yr old and his brother have been through. But its not an easy thing to do and throw your life like that. A series of events in the past have led to this no doubt about that. Of course there is no justification for killing innocent people.

This type of "attack" is just beyond belief, it was clearly targeted at innocent people. It wasn't at the church, government or any other body.

I'm curious... why did you put the word attack in quotes? Not trying to start a debate, just curious as to why.

Is a trap the same thing as an attack? If no, does this seem more like a trap or like an attack to you?

Off the top of my head I'd call it an attack. I think of a trap as something that a living creature stumbles into and sets off him/herself. It sounds like the bombs were set off with timers or some kind of remote device like a cell phone.

* or maybe it's both.

 

[Bocefish]

A trap is when you lure something in to capture or kill. I dunno how you can consider placing bombs during a major event in order to cause as much death and dismemberment a trap. It's more like a massacre.

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind? That saying doesn't apply in this situation because it assumes everyone is guilty and justice would harm us all.

Forgive? Forgive all you want but he's still gonna be put to death. These extremist nutjobs want everyone but Muslims dead so they can rule the world.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Forgive? Forgive all you want but he's still gonna be put to death. These extremist nutjobs want everyone but Muslims dead so they can rule the world.

MA doesn't have the death penalty. We've only had 3 Federal executions in the last 50 years and those folks like Timothy McVeigh didn't fight the death penalty that hard. I expect he will argue his big brother was controlling him. So unless he actually killed the cop and not his brother I think he is looking at life in prison.

 

[Bocefish]

MA doesn't have the death penalty. We've only had 3 Federal executions in the last 50 years and those folks like Timothy McVeigh didn't fight the death penalty that hard. I expect he will argue his big brother was controlling him. So unless he actually killed the cop and not his brother I think he is looking at life in prison.

Did you forget he put the bomb in place that killed that 8 year old boy... and forever maimed many more with the intent to kill as many as possible??

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Forgive? Forgive all you want but he's still gonna be put to death. These extremist nutjobs want everyone but Muslims dead so they can rule the world.

MA doesn't have the death penalty. We've only had 3 Federal executions in the last 50 years and those folks like Timothy McVeigh didn't fight the death penalty that hard. I expect he will argue his big brother was controlling him. So unless he actually killed the cop and not his brother I think he is looking at life in prison.

I think Bocefish is correct. Once put in prison I don't expect him to live more than two years before he is introduced to a shiv.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Did you forget he put the bomb in place that killed that 8 year old boy... and forever maimed many more with the intent to kill as many as possible??

Of course not just saying that the death penalty is extremely rare in Federal crimes. There has been a lot of gruesome crimes in the last 50 years and only 3 guys have been executed. I think his brother would have faced it, but I seriously doubt in 10+ years he will still be on death row.

 

[Bocefish]

“He’ll be facing the death penalty, so it’s in his interest to cooperate with the FBI,” former FBI Assistant Director Tom Fuentes told CNN.

“They don’t need (Tsarnaev’s) confession to prosecute and convict him,” Fuentes added. “There is going to be more evidence in this case because you’ve got video forensics (and) the murder of (MIT Officer Sean Collier).”


Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... z2R7hzGgAs

The only thing that may save his bacon is if he has knowledge of other terrorists and gives up everything he knows.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind? That saying doesn't apply in this situation because it assumes everyone is guilty and justice would harm us all.

That is not my understanding of the line. It does not assume everyone is guilty. It means that if someone hurts you and you hurt them back simply for revenge, it creates more of the violence and pain that you are trying to teach people to stop.

I am not going to debate whether or not you should hit your children, but a vivid example of this - from the mouths of babes was watching my father discipline my little sister for hitting her little brother. She got smacked on the butt a few times, and ran away crying and asked me "how come daddy gets to hit me, but I can't hit *brothers name*"... it did seem a little silly to me.

Forgive? Forgive all you want but he's still gonna be put to death. These extremist nutjobs want everyone but Muslims dead so they can rule the world.

You can forgive and still hold someone accountable and responsible for their actions... and you can dish out fair and just consequences.

To me its the difference between punishing someone out of anger/hurt/hatred and punishing someone to give them the just/fair consequences for their actions and to teach a lesson - either to them or to those who might also try to do what they did.

 

[Bocefish]

That ''eye for an eye" saying relates more to gangs and mob organizations where everybody is guilty, imho anyway. It can relate to a bunch of things but in this case, justice is not revenge.

 

[Just Me]

That ''eye for an eye" saying relates more to gangs and mob organizations where everybody is guilty, imho anyway. It can relate to a bunch of things but in this case, justice is not revenge.

Calling for someone to be put to death when they have yet to be charged and convicted of a crime is not justice, it is lynch mob mentality revenge.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

That ''eye for an eye" saying relates more to gangs and mob organizations where everybody is guilty, imho anyway. It can relate to a bunch of things but in this case, justice is not revenge.

no. it does not.

 

[Bocefish]

The "eye for an eye" saying originated back in the middle ages, Gandhi is the one who added the that it makes the world blind. If this was truly eye for an eye justice... there would be equally proportionate killing and maiming in retribution.

There's already been media stories about the brothers being involved with other terrorist cells, whether those pan out to be true or not has yet to be established.

Either way, the bomber will be facing the death penalty. Whether or not people consider that "eye for an eye" justice or revenge is up to them. I just want him fully interrogated first, then it makes no difference to me whether he gets killed in prison or executed by lethal injection.