banking (question for non-US models)

[uncoveredmanhole]

I'm having a lot of difficulty getting a good scenario sorted out for banking my cash-outs, so I'm wondering what you guys do.

ideally I'd like to be able to spend some USD given by CB directly, online, and transfer some locally into my local currency.
(ideally ideally I wanted to use a US bank as my intermediary, but CB wouldn't let me)

some banks charge a lot for checks, some charge nothing. some charge a lot for EFT, some little. some will allow me to store USD for free but not access it with a debit card or spend it online. some offer a travel debit card with many currencies.

it looks like paxum or payoneer might be the best intermediary for storing USD for now, but as far as spending and converting goes, I'm still not sure.

and it looks like it's really only worth doing once I've accumulated around four-figures (as opposed to how US models can do daily payouts), since I may lose $40-80 on completing the series of transactions for one deposit.

what do you guys normally do? and how much do you usually lose in the process? (sending-bank fees, receiving-bank fees, foreign-ex fees, account fees, etc.)

and what methods have you tried and had problems with/recommend against?

 

[Deleted member 35180]

I use payoneer in Canada, pay a $2 US loading fee each pay period, go get a "cash advance" done at a big bank to take out however much I want in cash (which has no fee attached to it) go deposit it at my small bank/into my investments, and keep the rest on the payoneer card as US $ to use whenever. When I make transactions with the card it converts the currency automatically and there are no fees.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

I use payoneer in Canada, pay a $2 US loading fee each pay period, go get a "cash advance" done at a big bank to take out however much I want in cash (which has no fee attached to it)

go deposit it at my small bank/into my investments, and keep the rest on the payoneer card as US $ to use whenever.

When I make transactions with the card it converts the currency automatically and there are no fees.

working backwards...
are you sure there's no fees (that the amount you get is the same as the exchange rate itself? (all the banks in my country charge around 2% on top of 'the' exchange rate as _their_ exchange rate for the service of converting currency for you, a bit more than that if you're doing cash instead of electronic. However, they speak as if there's no fees involved, but really they're equivocating. Paypal, when I spend from my NZD account to buy USD products, charge 2.5% or offer to let my bank do it for me if that's cheaper. All my banking options also have between a $15 and $30 one off fee for the electronic transfer itself (or around $0-15 for a physical cheque). there's no way I could deposit from Payoneer without a fixed fee.

so, the payoneer card has credit card like details? you're able to enter it into paypal for easy use buying online? (I ask because the 'keep money in a foreign currency (USD)' option the banks offered me said 'oh, but no you can't get a card for that account, and you can't spend USD from that account online. grrr
I think the Paxum card costs $45 a year (and it's not clear if they'll actually give me one). will have to look at Payoneer's.

'loading fee' being what? to transfer camsite>payoneer, or payoneer acct > payoneer card?

lastly, what is a 'cash advance' exactly? and what do you mean by a 'big bank'? (I think Citibank handle the USD accounts for the local bank I spoke with today, so maybe that's the kinda thing you mean?). I looked at the wiki on advances, but they only speak of credit cards, really, and the fee that applies to them. ... you're saying you can use a payoneer card, that holds USD, in a foreign country, at any random bank (not any kind of bank, but a big bank) which you don't hold an account with in order to withdraw physical money, and there's no fee involved like there might be with normal withdrawals or transfers (withdrawing from payoneer and depositing into your bank)?

 

[Deleted member 35180]

working backwards...
are you sure there's no fees (that the amount you get is the same as the exchange rate itself? Yes on this. (all the banks in my country charge around 2% on top of 'the' exchange rate as _their_ exchange rate for the service of converting currency for you, a bit more than that if you're doing cash instead of electronic. However, they speak as if there's no fees involved, but really they're equivocating. Paypal, when I spend from my NZD account to buy USD products, charge 2.5% or offer to let my bank do it for me if that's cheaper. All my banking options also have between a $15 and $30 one off fee for the electronic transfer itself (or around $0-15 for a physical cheque). there's no way I could deposit from Payoneer without a fixed fee. I can only speak/give advice from my experience in Canada. I don't know about NZD, sorry.

so, the payoneer card has credit card like details? you're able to enter it into paypal for easy use buying online? (I ask because the 'keep money in a foreign currency (USD)' option the banks offered me said 'oh, but no you can't get a card for that account, and you can't spend USD from that account online. grrr
I think the Paxum card costs $45 a year (and it's not clear if they'll actually give me one). will have to look at Payoneer's. Dunno about this, other than my experience is I can't use it to by stuff online, and I think Payoneer's fee is closer to $30 a year, sorry.

'loading fee' being what? (to transfer camsite>payoneer)<----this, or payoneer acct > payoneer card?

lastly, what is a 'cash advance' exactly? I don't know, I just know that that's what they called it and it had no fees attached. I had to do it at the teller, couldn't be done at the atm. and what do you mean by a 'big bank'? I can't comfortably give specifics here on who I do/do not bank with for privacy reasons. (I think Citibank handle the USD accounts for the local bank I spoke with today, so maybe that's the kinda thing you mean?). I looked at the wiki on advances, but they only speak of credit cards, really, and the fee that applies to them. ... you're saying you can use a payoneer card, that holds USD, in a foreign country, at any random bank (not any kind of bank, but a big bank) which you don't hold an account with in order to withdraw physical money, and there's no fee involved like there might be with normal withdrawals or transfers (withdrawing from payoneer and depositing into your bank)? In Canada, I've found a way to do this, yes. I don't know if you can do the same in NZD but is worth a try no?

Also jealous that you live in NZD, Oceania is my dream continent destination in the future

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

oh, and lastly.
"keep the rest on the payoneer card as US $ to use whenever"

I'm looking at the card terms for Paxum, and they charge $1 for online transactions (which would mean I may just as well not keep my money in USD and spend from an account where I'm charged to convert to USD as long as I'm spending under ~$50). but Payoneer's fee page suggests it's totally free. so that's good. Is that what you've found? no hidden costs?

but it does say you pay 1% out of everything you receive from the camsite, if I understand this correctly:
"Using our Global Payment Service you will be given local receiving accounts: USD 1% [to receive payments]

IIRC, CB charge me $0.5 to send a payout to Paxum, or $1 to send a payment to Payoneer.
So, just to confirm...
if you cash out $50 worth of tokens, you receive about $48?
you can withdraw that $48 as CAD with no fees (except the hidden bank fee on top of the international X-rates), and spend USD with a payoneer card online without paying a dime in usage fees?
what does their card cost? (Paxum have a $45 a year maintenance fee, I can't see Payoneer's anywhere).

"With Payoneer you can easily withdraw funds to your local bank account in local currency at excellent rate:
Up to 2%
above mid-market rate.
learn more [click text]"
"Additional fees may be charged by your bank."

you're saying you avoid that "up to 2%" Payoneer fee and any bank transfer fees by just withdrawing cash from somewhere?

I clicked 'learn more' and it led me to a page saying "In addition to the conversion by MasterCard, Payoneer applies a currency conversion charge of up to 3.5%."

now I'm thoroughly confused about how you're getting the result you get.
Can you walk me through it, starting with something like an even $100 (2000tk) example, and ending with the amount you actually have available to spend in CAD (if you withdraw everything)?
I really can't see how you're avoiding 2% or 3.5% or 3.5%+more%+fees, or anything else that looks like what I've been told are my choices.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

is it a unique US/CA relationship thing?

I mean, here's what I've done. I google "USD to NZD"
USD$1,000
is worth
NZD$1,450
this is how much each bank will give me (excluding fees) if I send it from Payoneer to an NZD account I hold with them:
$1,367 BNZ
$1,368 ASB
$1,409 Westpac
$1,412 KiwiBank
$1,417 ANZ
this shows how the international x-rate is not the bank's conversion rate, theirs has a % fee on top of it.

for you it's US$100 from 2000tks
minus $1 to send to Payoneer
minus 0 to receive by Payoneer --your balance is $99? (Paxum is the same, so I can believe that - the only fees are to withdraw from the acct or spend from the card)
your USD stored with Payoneer is worth $133.9 CAD (at the rate as of a few minutes ago)
you go to some kind of bank (a few minutes ago), and choose to take out the full amount and receive $133.9 in the hand, cash?


anyone else, including payoneer officials are welcome to jump in on this if they think they can help.

 

[uncoveredmanhole]

Also jealous that you live in NZD, Oceania is my dream continent destination in the future

travelcamming! lol, think of all the exotic airbnb and hotels you can defile for your fans.

 

[LydiaFrost]

Just one thing about payoneer/ firstchoice pay. They don't have any kind of fraud protection, if you use the card online or in stores to pay for things and it gets compromised you won't get your money back.
So using that service for storing money.... not recommended. I know that a lot of models including myself try to get our money out of there as soon as possible.

 

[Dan Epstein]

I'm sorry to hear that this was your experience princessofperv. We do have a large team that deals with fraud protection, and if needed, charge backs as well. Not all charge backs are fraud related by the way. I do agree that we do not aim to provide money storage services, that is a salient point.