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Nordling said:
I'm all for home schooling if the parent(s) have the knowledge and skills and ensure there are outlets to socialize with other kids. Problem is a lot of home school folks don't and they don't realize that themselves.

An online friend a few years ago was home schooling her 11 year old daughter. She used to ask me questions like: "Is Paris in London or Europe?" This was during her geography lesson. I know that sounds outlandish but I'm not exaggerating.

Another woman I knew was a neighbor. She seemed to be doing okay, but I wonder how diverse the average home schooling parent's education is. For the grade school years, one teacher seems to work okay...but from middle school on, few parents have a diverse education...and for that matter diverse personalities. One of my strongest memories of school was the variety of teachers I had; some were terrible but some were inspiring. Just like regular life. :)

I agree with this too. You can't just say "schools suck" I'm homeschooling & not have the necessary skills or knowledge to do so. You'll be doing your child a greater disfavor than if you just sent them to a school. My aunt tried to homeschool her children with very little education herself & no real drive to teach her children. She just didn't want to send her babies to the "awful schools" and their "dismal education" policies, but then she did nothing to teach her children once they were home. After begging, she finally enrolled them back into school after 2 years, and they were so far behind none of them will graduate with their age group. For the most part- most people I've known who home schooled were crap at it. It has made me quite biased on the topic of it, so I try to not say too much. Just that you really should know what your doing.
 
LadyLuna said:
JickyJuly

If kids can't come out of 13 years of schooling with the skills necessary to run a cash register in a retail situation

One more thing for schools to teach? This one is supposed to be tackled by summer jobs in junior and senior year of high school. Unfortunately, managers these days think that a person just entering the field is supposed to magically have 3-5 years of experience...
I'm not talking about understanding the technology and pushing buttons. I mean understanding that a roll of pennies is 50 cents, that your drawer should be the same base amount at the start of the day and the finish etc. If they need 3-5 years of experience to understand that, they are dead in the water. I rarely hired anyone under 21 and most of the time had to start my day by fixing whatever math insanity they'd brought upon us. If they can't balance $ on the job, how are they getting through their own personal lives?

I think my saddest moment was explaining to a 24 year old woman during a computer crash that she did not have to total everything out, then multiply it by .0925 then add the two together. School did not teach her the multiplication table of 1. If that's not a failure on their part, what is? It's really sad, and not many jobs are going to baby people through learning basic math.
 
LadyLuna said:
If kids can't come out of 13 years of schooling with the skills necessary to run a cash register in a retail situation

One more thing for schools to teach? This one is supposed to be tackled by summer jobs in junior and senior year of high school. Unfortunately, managers these days think that a person just entering the field is supposed to magically have 3-5 years of experience...

Summer jobs aren't a high school requirement though, so you can't assume that everyone can or will choose to get one. In my case, growing up in a rural area, I didn't have transportation to a job until I moved to a city after high school, and that was the situation for many of my peers as well. And after working in retail for years, I've seen many people that needed a class on money math. They really should have a class that shows actual practical applications of math, like cash registers, credit cards, etc. I think that would be a lot more beneficial to everyday life than trigonometry.
 
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Well, yeah, I can agree on a class on money-math. That's supposed to be when you learn decimals, as that's all money is...

I learned that in 5th grade. Are teachers really not using money to teach decimals any more?
 
Health Education:

Health education? I remember a class in elementary or middle school that had to do with Health but I don't remember education being attached to it. Each year our science classes focused on a different part of science and at least one of those early years had a few chapters on health and wellness. That was the 90s so not super recent but far from old either but I'm just not sure what's controversial about this.

Sex Education:

My mother is an 8th grade science teacher. She calls 8th grade by another name sometimes... hormone hell. Since she teaches science, sex ed falls to her. I remember in 5th or 6th grade, girls were pulled out of class for what I would later find out was an early introductory course on what was going on with their bodies and what it would mean and it covered a little of the overlap of a health and sex ed course for women. I don't recall what school personnel was responsible for our sex ed in middle school but I do remember in High School our gym teachers and sports team coaches somehow drew the short straw. In all of the above cases (mine and my mother's) the children take home permission slips and if the parent wants to handle it themselves, they can opt for that by not signing the slip. Being from the bible belt they tended to drone abstinence into your brain for half the "class" then briefly go over the "but if you're going to have sex at least don't be stupid and use one of these methods" thing describing different forms of protection and what their pros and cons were.

Drug and Alcohol Education:

Drug and alcohol education? Never heard of that one. I recall drug and alcohol awareness little rallies and stuff. I distinctly remember near the end of elementary school sitting in the courtyard of the school as every one took their "Just Say No" pledge and was granted a purple t-shirt with the Just Say No logo across it. Perhaps I was already a cynic then because I distinctly remember thinking "Most of the people here are liars" as I looked over the crowd of my peers from my vantage point near one edge of the courtyard knowing that a lot would try drugs and most would drink before adulthood. This is controversial? I'm so confused.

Death Education:

I feel like I've known what death was my whole life. I know that cannot be the case but I feel like I was exposed to it so early and went from a "never coming back" understanding of it to a "never breathing again" understanding over time. I don't understand. Maybe I suck.

Critical Thinking Education:

First of all, I don't remember education being attached to "Critical Thinking" whenever I heard the phrase growing up. It wasn't its own class and maybe it would have been more successful for some people if it had been but most teachers encouraged critical thinking.

Overall Opinions and Rant:

That said, I feel like half the problem with people I encounter in the world is how we hold their hands and teach them this method or that method to accomplish tasks. So many people need their hand held through every little thing. They need everything spelled out for them to the letter. They must paint by number or they will find themselves hopelessly lost. We need to teach people how to figure things out. How to use their perception, deduction, and lots of other tions to work their way through anything they encounter. I've only come to realize in the last few years how important my basic ability to do such has been in my life and I wish it was something that I'd developed more growing up rather than just having knowledge that applied to specific subjects that I may or may not use. The ability to deduce, troubleshoot, and work through anything.

I'm a product of the public school system. My mother is a public school teacher. It upsets me greatly when people threaten to take away money from the public schools. On top of that, I am tempted to home school any children I have so they can get more practical problem solving skills than I feel they would get at a school. I don't blame the teachers in general. There are some who shouldn't be there but there are others who do such amazing things and would do even more if they weren't hindered by the disgusting politics involved in public education.

I am not talking about the state and federal legislatures. They may slash funding and push for vouchers that would take more money away from schools while throwing heaps of bureaucracy and red tape on teachers using the guise of "accountability" but that's not the most direct problem. I am talking about the politics that exist within the school districts. Too many administrators are more concerned with advancing their careers by going after prestigious awards and accolades or simply not looking bad than about making sure teachers have what they need to succeed and students leave ready for their next stage.

Things like this terrify me. They're divisive and full of propaganda. One party will eat it up while driving a wedge deeper between the partisan divide. Some fucking United States we are. United in chaos and discord. I wrote the following paragraphs back in January but I feel like it applies to how I feel now as I conclude this post.

Code:
I'm starting to think the polarizing effect that pervades US Politics right now will develop into a legislative impasse. Federal government stalemates continue to demoralize the nation but compromise is punished when re-elections roll around. This makes me question where the blame lies. Is it the system or is it all of us?
 
We are, in theory, the ones who punish those who do not toe our preferential party line. As part of the "we," I don't like to think we are the problem and yet the alternative is possibly worse. Are we as a nation so suceptible to what others want us to think and feel that we are little better than puppets for the politicians? Are the politicians puppets themselves? Who would we find at the top pulling the strings? Maybe it's more comforting after all to place the blame on us whether we deserve it or not. 
 
Maybe  I'm needlessly concerned. Maybe everything is going to be okay. Maybe I'll go grab some lunch and everything will be better... until next time I turn on the television between now and November.

Anyone still reading, I'm sorry to have used up so much of your time but thanks for making it to the end. :)
 
Luna, and to others....
Besides homeschooling and all of that...
Anything else about the book that you found interesting... ? Just curious.

The title
"The DELIBERATE Dumbing Down of America"
suggests something extremely powerful
and possibly disturbing.

Also did you get to read any of her other articles, like on free-will and such... ?
 
LadyLuna said:
Well, yeah, I can agree on a class on money-math. That's supposed to be when you learn decimals, as that's all money is...

I learned that in 5th grade. Are teachers really not using money to teach decimals any more?

I learned the math in elementary school as well, but I have no idea what the curriculum is now, I just think they should do a whole money math course and teach you about credit cards, checkbook balancing, etc in addition to decimals. That would be pretty useful.
 
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MadisonLeigh said:
LadyLuna said:
Well, yeah, I can agree on a class on money-math. That's supposed to be when you learn decimals, as that's all money is...

I learned that in 5th grade. Are teachers really not using money to teach decimals any more?

I learned the math in elementary school as well, but I have no idea what the curriculum is now, I just think they should do a whole money math course and teach you about credit cards, checkbook balancing, etc in addition to decimals. That would be pretty useful.

I remember in 8th and 9th grade, there were "how to study" classes that were geared at helping students pass high school.

The closest they come to how to help kids after high school is "home ec"- oh yes, cause if you know how to follow a recipe and run a sewing machine, you're fit to live on your own :roll: . Why not in Junior and Senior year of high school have a series of "how to get through the rest of your life" classes? Have them focus on getting into college, getting a job, what apartments require, what sorts of bills you'll have to pay, how to budget, how to balance your checkbook, and basic job skills like running a register and dealing with customers...
 
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LadyLuna said:
MadisonLeigh said:
LadyLuna said:
Well, yeah, I can agree on a class on money-math. That's supposed to be when you learn decimals, as that's all money is...

I learned that in 5th grade. Are teachers really not using money to teach decimals any more?

I learned the math in elementary school as well, but I have no idea what the curriculum is now, I just think they should do a whole money math course and teach you about credit cards, checkbook balancing, etc in addition to decimals. That would be pretty useful.

I remember in 8th and 9th grade, there were "how to study" classes that were geared at helping students pass high school.

The closest they come to how to help kids after high school is "home ec"- oh yes, cause if you know how to follow a recipe and run a sewing machine, you're fit to live on your own :roll: . Why not in Junior and Senior year of high school have a series of "how to get through the rest of your life" classes? Have them focus on getting into college, getting a job, what apartments require, what sorts of bills you'll have to pay, how to budget, how to balance your checkbook, and basic job skills like running a register and dealing with customers...

Yup that seems way more practical to me than some of the stuff I had to learn in high school.
 
Well, just reading a few parts of the book in PDF format, it strikes me as rather conspiratorial...what with allegations about the "Illuminati" and kindred. And Ms Iserbyt seems to be pointing at the "left" as being to blame for her suggested destruction of American education. But this seems rather odd when nearly all of the political pressure to "change" education comes from the "right," e.g., the desire to teach "creationism" alongside evolution, the absurd apparent hatred of "intellectuals," and in all this I include the desire from the right to take away women's rights. The right to privacy, the constant table pounding about "traditional marriage." What is traditional marriage? Clue: wedding rings in the beginning were a sign of "ownership." Even in the 20th century, many western countries still practiced arranged marriages...which were, in essence the giving of ownership of a daughter from one family to another.

If there's a conspiracy to rid society of these practices, I'm all for them. :)
 
The word "conspiracy" has such a stigma to it. Our society has been conditioned to think right off the bat, that once they hear the word "conspiracy" thrown into the subject, it automatically makes the subject sound "absurd" or "paranoid".
There is a reason why the word "conspiracy" is in the dictionary, the reason is because conspiracies *do* exists, it's even a criminal charge that many people end up going to prison for every year.
Webster's Dictionary defines the word Conspiracy as: a secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal
Conspiracies happen all the time, everyday, in all areas of life, including within governments... actually, what am I saying, ESPECIALLY within governments!!! Because governments are inherently evil. It's only human nature to become corrupt when someone is given that level of power. "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely!" This is why the founding fathers designed a government set up with checks and balances and transparency.
Little by little, those checks and balances and transparency have been gradually dismantled throughout the years. The biggest reason that they have been able to get away with this, is because less and less people are educated on how our system of government is supposed to function.
Could this really all be just a coincidence? I doubt it, I mean look at who benefits from the masses being "dumbed down". There has to be a conspiracy.
At least that's my :twocents-02cents:
 
What age does home schooling go to? Is it just primary? (i.e 4-7 or something?).

As for that rather "loaded with bullshit" video regarding a terror drill - I did not see any kids.Undoubtedly held at the weekend, undoubtedly with actors (which may include children if required, but honestly, did not see any whatsoever). They did this at our University over a year ago, unsurprisingly, when students weren't around (during the holiday break).

As for someone's comments about research at a university - what is your experience in this area? I often read comments (I am UK obviously though :p ) where people talk about things they really know nothing about :p Any illumination as to exactly what experience you have of this? I ask as someone who has spent 2 years as a PhD student - so I have knowledge of how research is conducted; I was doing it. From the few lines I read here, it appears others do not ;)

There are obvious advantages of a state education compared to home schooling - one of which should be consistency (i.e. thinking at the level of population).
Obviously some would argue that's consistently bad, rather than good, but it should offer a basic level of education that the government deems the citizens should hold.

At certain ages the material is basic, as it progresses it is more complex. Hence why I ask the age range? Delving into science past age 8 should require the parents to have the required knowledge and equipment to not stump the development. Sure, some will take offence and think they are capable - but talking about everyone and not just individuals :p

Additionally, a lot of child development will come from interaction with their peers in the school environment. Team sports, just general play time, lunches, etc. Does home schooling not diminish this level of development in children? There are skills, social skills, they will learn at school which won't be present during home tuition... on a daily basis. At least imo - or is this accounted for somehow?

Home schooling always fills me with a little dread. Again, not based upon the individual (as some will be very capable!) but as a whole cross-section of society :p
 
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Zoomer said:
What age does home schooling go to? Is it just primary? (i.e 4-7 or something?).

As for that rather "loaded with bullshit" video regarding a terror drill - I did not see any kids.Undoubtedly held at the weekend, undoubtedly with actors (which may include children if required, but honestly, did not see any whatsoever). They did this at our University over a year ago, unsurprisingly, when students weren't around (during the holiday break).

As for someone's comments about research at a university - what is your experience in this area? I often read comments (I am UK obviously though :p ) where people talk about things they really know nothing about :p Any illumination as to exactly what experience you have of this? I ask as someone who has spent 2 years as a PhD student - so I have knowledge of how research is conducted; I was doing it. From the few lines I read here, it appears others do not ;)

There are obvious advantages of a state education compared to home schooling - one of which should be consistency (i.e. thinking at the level of population).
Obviously some would argue that's consistently bad, rather than good, but it should offer a basic level of education that the government deems the citizens should hold.

At certain ages the material is basic, as it progresses it is more complex. Hence why I ask the age range? Delving into science past age 8 should require the parents to have the required knowledge and equipment to not stump the development. Sure, some will take offence and think they are capable - but talking about everyone and not just individuals :p

Additionally, a lot of child development will come from interaction with their peers in the school environment. Team sports, just general play time, lunches, etc. Does home schooling not diminish this level of development in children? There are skills, social skills, they will learn at school which won't be present during home tuition... on a daily basis. At least imo - or is this accounted for somehow?

Home schooling always fills me with a little dread. Again, not based upon the individual (as some will be very capable!) but as a whole cross-section of society :p
Home schooling can go all the way through high school, there are curricula that covers all aspects of education, if it is covered in a public school or a private school there are books to cover it all, some of the providers of that curriculum if you are interested is Abeka (used in a lot of private / christian schools), Saxon for math, sonlight, just to name a few. There are also other places to look to for education and "SOCIALIZATION" 4-H is a good source of alternative learning www.4-h.org/ also look into local home school groups, most states have their own main group that supports the local groups Indiana Association of Home Educators (IAHE) www.inhomeeducators.org/is the one that I am a part of on top of the local group that I am active in.

Another good source that all home schoolers should be aware of is http://www.hslda.org/ they have a list of most groups in each state and how to get in touch with them.

Home schooling is not for everyone, but there are a LOT of people that are very successful at it, My daughter is now a phlebotomist at one of the hospitals that she lives near to. I have 2 sons that are also on the way to higher education also, one is a Freshman and the other is a Sophomore and also EXTREMELY active in sports ( Martial arts, Archery, Rifle, Shotgun, Basketball, baseball ) both boys are working towards their black belts and one has been to state multiple times.

To make someone understand that your children will learn what you teach them, to become social, you as parents have to be social also. Too many think that your children HAVE to be in public school to become "properly" socialized. To be fair to the system, you can become very social at school, you can also get into trouble for being TOO social at school too. My children are able to go into just about any situation with people of any age and be able to carry on an intelligent conversation where as if you put someone that is in a public school setting and that "social network" unless that child is in a group of similar aged people, they are usually quiet and self conscious at least from my experience.
 
Zoomer said:
.

As for someone's comments about research at a university - what is your experience in this area? I often read comments (I am UK obviously though :p ) where people talk about things they really know nothing about :p Any illumination as to exactly what experience you have of this? I ask as someone who has spent 2 years as a PhD student - so I have knowledge of how research is conducted; I was doing it. From the few lines I read here, it appears others do not ;)


Well since you asked, I happen to work at two universities and one community college and have taught courses in psychological assessment, social psychology, human development, counseling, I/O psychology and basic introductory psychology. Funding for one of my main positions was cut and influenced my income, hence my webcamming modeling to support myself in the meanwhile.

I am also a counselor at one of these institutions, and work in research through the Behavioral Science Lab at another. I have spent good deal of time in the education system not only as a student, but as a professor and support resource for other students in college. I have a pretty good understanding of the research machine in academia. I also conduct psychological assessments for learning disabilities, I/Q/achievement, and emotional/behavioral concerns to help determine academic accommodations for students based on access and need and ADA regulations.

Therefore, I feel pretty qualified to make such comments. Would you agree?

I have also seen how students are so ill-prepared when they enter college. It actually bewilders me. I have also seen how biased most institutions and professors are in their curriculum.
 
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Poker_Babe said:
The word "conspiracy" has such a stigma to it. Our society has been conditioned to think right off the bat, that once they hear the word "conspiracy" thrown into the subject, it automatically makes the subject sound "absurd" or "paranoid".
There is a reason why the word "conspiracy" is in the dictionary, the reason is because conspiracies *do* exists, it's even a criminal charge that many people end up going to prison for every year.
Webster's Dictionary defines the word Conspiracy as: a secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal
Conspiracies happen all the time, everyday, in all areas of life, including within governments... actually, what am I saying, ESPECIALLY within governments!!! Because governments are inherently evil. It's only human nature to become corrupt when someone is given that level of power. "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely!" This is why the founding fathers designed a government set up with checks and balances and transparency.
Little by little, those checks and balances and transparency have been gradually dismantled throughout the years. The biggest reason that they have been able to get away with this, is because less and less people are educated on how our system of government is supposed to function.
Could this really all be just a coincidence? I doubt it, I mean look at who benefits from the masses being "dumbed down". There has to be a conspiracy.
At least that's my :twocents-02cents:



Thank you so much Poker_Babe for illustrating this point...!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm right with ya on this. I think using the term "conspiracy" as an argument these days is getting a bit redundant and may in some way be a form of Cognitive Dissonance for some (not all, but some... no offence)





I remember a few of you discusing something about teaching kids how to use and count money, decimals and so forth...

here is a wild and crazy idea....

How about we teach them about what money actually is, what FIAT currency is, what fractional reserve banking is, how money is actually created (out of debt and out of thin air) where it comes from and what the freaking Federal Reserve and Central Banking are??? Wouldn't that be cool. What about teaching them how these entities think careless government spending is great and how wars are even better. How about teaching them something about gold and silver standards and currencies with real value. ??? Just a thought, but I believe it would make for some very informed students and citizens.

a little silly but, explains some points regarding the illusive $
Two school of thoughts about money and economics: Keynes vs. Hayek


12 year old girl explains corrupt Canadian banking system
 
I guess this forum topic died...
But I was reading this article today.. and it made me remember this topic...
At any rate, found it interesting..

source: http://endoftheamericandream.com/archiv ... to-college

19 Things That All High School Students Should Be Told Before They Go To College

Don't you wish that someone had told you the truth before you went to college? Don't you wish that someone had told you that college has become a giant money making scam that is designed to drain as much money out of students and parents as possible? Yes, college can be a profitable endeavor if you pick your field of study wisely, if you can get someone else to pay for at least some of it and if you can actually get a good job in that field when you graduate. But most high school students are never told to weigh the pros and the cons before they run off to college. The typical high school student is simply told to get into the "best school" that he or she can and to take out whatever loans are "necessary" to pay for that education. Our high school students are assured that those student loans will be paid back easily once they get "good jobs" following graduation. But the truth is that there are some other things that high school students should be told before they go off to college as well. They should be told that student loan debt can cripple them financially for decades. They should be told that the quality of education at most U.S. colleges and universities is a total joke. They should be told that most college graduates do not get a "good job" once they graduate these days. They should be told that after they receive their diplomas they are likely to end up flat broke, waiting tables and living with their parents.

If we would just be honest with our high school students ahead of time, it would save many of them a whole lot of pain later.

Higher education is not necessarily a bad thing. But these days when it comes to higher education the goal should be to get as much for your money as you possibly can. You don't want to end up spending four years of your life and paying hundreds of thousands of dollars for a degree in "art history" or "political science".

If you are going to get a college degree, choose a field that will actually advance your career and try to spend as little as you can. Unless you have wealthy parents who can pay for it all, the goal should be to make as big of a profit on your education as possible.

Unfortunately, most young Americans are not told the truth and they end up falling for the scam and many of them end up as debt slaves for decades.

The following are 19 things that all high school students should be told before they go to college....

#1 A college education has become insanely expensive. Over the past 30 years, the cost of college tuition in the United States has tripled. One father down in Texas says that he will spend a total of about 1.5 million dollars on college expenses for his five daughters before it is all said and done.

#2 As costs have risen, so has student borrowing. Sadly, U.S. college students are now borrowing about twice as much money as they did a decade ago after adjusting for inflation.

#3 Unless you have a wealthy parent, there are some schools that should be avoided like the plague. In the United States today, there are dozens of schools where tuition, room and board total more than $50,000 a year, and only a handful of those schools provide a top notch education.

#4 Our parents and our grandparents paid far less for their college educations than we do today. Back in 1952, a full year of tuition at Harvard was only $600. Today, it is over $35,000.

#5 The college textbook industry has become a gigantic money making scam. It is now common for many college textbooks to be priced well above $100, and overall the cost of college textbooks has tripled over the past decade.

#6 At the end of your education, your diploma will likely come with a debt burden which will hang around your neck for many years to come. In 2010, the average student loan debt burden at graduation was $25,250.

#7 Student loan debt is one of the greatest debt bubbles the U.S. has ever seen. In fact, student loan debt in America has grown by 511 percent since 1999.

#8 Americans now owe more on their student loans than they do on their credit cards. In fact, the total amount of student loan debt in the United States recently surpassed the one trillion dollar mark.

#9 People that pursue advanced degrees can pile up absolutely enormous amounts of student loan debt. According to the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, approximately 167,000 Americans currently have more than $200,000 of student loan debt.

#10 The student loan default rate in the U.S. is rising to unprecedented heights. In fact, the student loan default rate has nearly doubled since 2005.

#11 All over America, websites are connecting young college students desperate for college cash with "sugar daddies" that are willing to make a "contribution" to college education in exchange for some "companionship". The following is from a Huffington Post article about this disturbing trend....

On a Sunday morning in late May, Taylor left her Harlem apartment and boarded a train for Greenwich, Conn. She planned on spending the day with a man she had met online, but not in person.

Taylor, a 22-year-old student at Hunter College, had confided in her roommate about the trip and they agreed to swap text messages during the day to make sure she was safe.

Once in Greenwich, a man who appeared significantly older than his advertised age of 42 greeted Taylor at the train station and then drove her to the largest house she had ever seen. He changed into his swimming trunks, she put on a skimpy bathing suit, and then, by the side of his pool, she rubbed sunscreen into the folds of his sagging back -- bracing herself to endure an afternoon of sex with someone she suspected was actually about 30 years her senior.

#12 Once you start college, there is a very good chance that you will not finish. Federal statistics reveal that only 36 percent of the full-time students who began college in 2001 received a bachelor's degree within four years.

#13 At most U.S. colleges and universities, the quality of the education that you will receive is rather poor. Just check out some numbers about the quality of college education in the United States from an article that appeared in USA Today....

-"After two years in college, 45% of students showed no significant gains in learning; after four years, 36% showed little change."

-"Students also spent 50% less time studying compared with students a few decades ago"

-"35% of students report spending five or fewer hours per week studying alone."

-"50% said they never took a class in a typical semester where they wrote more than 20 pages"

-"32% never took a course in a typical semester where they read more than 40 pages per week."

#14 The good news is that you will have more free time in college than you have ever had before. One survey found that U.S. college students spend 24% of their time sleeping, 51% of their time socializing and 7% of their time studying.

#15 You are probably not going to be able to find a good job when you graduate. Last year, a staggering 53 percent of all U.S. college graduates under the age of 25 were either unemployed or underemployed.

#16 After you leave college, you are much more likely to get a crappy job than you are to get a good paying professional job. The following is an excerpt from a recent CNBC article....

In the last year, they were more likely to be employed as waiters, waitresses, bartenders and food-service helpers than as engineers, physicists, chemists and mathematicians combined (100,000 versus 90,000). There were more working in office-related jobs such as receptionist or payroll clerk than in all computer professional jobs (163,000 versus 100,000). More also were employed as cashiers, retail clerks and customer representatives than engineers (125,000 versus 80,000).

#17 If you think that you will be able to "beat the odds" and land the job of your dreams once you graduate from college, perhaps you should consider these numbers....

-In the United States today, approximately 365,000 cashiers have college degrees.

-In the United States today, 317,000 waiters and waitresses have college degrees.

-In the United States today, there are more than 100,000 janitors that have college degrees.

#18 College does a very poor job of preparing people for the "real world". In fact, one poll found that 70% of all college graduates wish that they had spent more time preparing for the "real world" while they were still in school.

#19 Once you graduate from college, there is a really good chance that you will be moving back home with Mom and Dad. One recent poll discovered that 29 percent of all Americans in the 25 to 34 year old age bracket are still living with their parents.
 
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And then there was this... from the National Inflation Association
Not sure how accurate it all is, but thought provoking. A good documentary to watch.


 
Another interesting documentarty if anyone is in the mood.

Consuming Kids: The Commercialization of Childhood (Trailer)


Full version
 
to go along with - The 19 Things All High School Students should be told
before they go to College
 

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I decided to go back to school to get a degree in something I loved, but the closer I get to graduation the more I realize that camming may be the best career choice for me.
Why?

The other alternative is applying at McDonalds and making that my career. What sounds more appealing to you? :whistle: Minimum wage around here pays less than welfare does and it's impossible to survive on unless you want to start selling drugs.
 
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I've ended up with a job that I could make into a career in the IT department of a university. I say "could make into a career" because it's definitely not one now. Due to my circumstances I have information to add on two sides of the "college" discussion.

My Situation
I got a little lucky thanks to my father to find myself working for the state at a university in their IT department because I enjoy technology and have a bit of an affinity for it. I make better money for my formal qualifications than I could most places. That said, I would make much better money if I had a degree... any degree. I wish I'd been able to stay motivated to finish my degree because things would be much easier now. Then again, I could put 4-6 months into earning a few certifications and make just as much money as a bachelor's degree would earn me. Such is this part of the technology industry. That said, I also did my first two years at a local technical college. I worked towards an associate of sciences degree and Dad picked up the bill at the bargain price of approximately $1425 per semester.

My Observations
The university for which I'm employed is near the coast and is quite affordable compared to most baccalaureate degree granting institutions in the area with moderately low academic requirements. I reckon that these things mean we end up with a lot of two kinds college students. Those who want to get away from home and be near the beach and those who are being pressured into higher education but don't qualify for other institutions. A lot of the problems with higher education are simply because the students don't really want to be there. They squeak by with what they have to do to pass and sometimes not even that. I remember how the expectations on all of us to go on to higher education after high school seemed absurd to me. The idea that such a large % of the population NEEDS a college degree seems absolutely silly to me. I feel like we've abandoned associates and technical degrees a bit too much. Two years to learn things specific to your intended profession at an affordable institution is definitely the way to go for a lot of people in my opinion.
 
Mirra said:
I feel like we've abandoned associates and technical degrees a bit too much. Two years to learn things specific to your intended profession at an affordable institution is definitely the way to go for a lot of people in my opinion.
This is what I'm doing simply because it's absolutely retarded to spend that much money to get a 'useless' degree. Around here most of the only available jobs are in fast food so what's the point in going to school for years and going broke only to end up at McDonalds? My time/education is best spent earning a degree in the shortest amount of time possible and for the least amount of money.

Heck, most strip joints around here aren't even hiring! That's how bad we're lacking in jobs in Music City. :?
 
Didn't really feel like muddling through the entire thing here but I did skim it all, especially the "19 things"... and indeed, that is great advice for any kid or parent now. Thanks Leena :thumbleft:

I guess I should consider myself fortunate. The district I attended did indeed have the basic "consumer money math" in my Sr. year of HS. It hit it all, with the exception of some of the higher banking area. Budgeting, wage vs expenditure calculations, balancing a checkbook, what the gold standard was, how money worth was created, and..... how to actually count back change from a transaction! [How long has it been since a clerk has actually done that, instead of just looking a the screen and pushing a wad of bills and change back at you with the receipt folded in it? :think: ] It also covered college life, basic contracts [so you could make a valid one between roomies that would hold up if one bailed on the other], job searching and resume construction, loans and how to figure interest and time to repay, and other things that I have forgotten over the years.
Apparently, the district did not find any value in such curriculum and eliminated it about a decade ago.

The one good thing is that they actually have a class now that teaches problem solving in the real world and uses random every day scenarios and jobs [from McD's counter help to corp. situation mid management] that kids and adults will be likely to run into. Most of it is mental function but they do get their hands dirty also.

Coming from an area that's literally thick with "rocket scientists" and support industries, the home schooled around here actually placed consistently higher in entrance testing than public schooled kids. 2 families I know well took turns with the 5 kids between them. They took them to the local HS for Jr/Sr year, as stated for the "social aspect." The problem was that the 3 that went for testing to enter HS for the last 2 years, passed Sr graduation exams with a 97% before they were 16. :clap: The parents had to threaten legal action to get them admitted.

With this "dumbing down" that is quite apparent to me when I look at the exposure to knowledge the kids of today dont even seem to have or care about, it really troubles me. If there isn't a screen in front of them, they seem to be at a loss of what to do or how to do anything. My 2 boys were exposed to a lot of the "old school" thinking as well as the stuff of today. They frequently relate stories of "can you believe they didn't know..." about friends and now coworkers. That said, its no wonder that we are seriously lagging in the world as a country instead of retaining the once fairly advanced position we had worked so hard to gain.

oh lordy, this got long. I'll STFU now.... :whistle:
 
Could it be that this "dumbing down" is being contributed by the fact that the state of Texas is the one that gets to decide what will and won't be mentioned in school books?
 
blackxrose said:
Mirra said:
I feel like we've abandoned associates and technical degrees a bit too much. Two years to learn things specific to your intended profession at an affordable institution is definitely the way to go for a lot of people in my opinion.
This is what I'm doing simply because it's absolutely retarded to spend that much money to get a 'useless' degree. Around here most of the only available jobs are in fast food so what's the point in going to school for years and going broke only to end up at McDonalds? My time/education is best spent earning a degree in the shortest amount of time possible and for the least amount of money.

Heck, most strip joints around here aren't even hiring! That's how bad we're lacking in jobs in Music City. :?


I hear ya, and agree with you completely....
Strip Clubs not even hiring up there? Gee come down a little below the bible belt and those kind of jobs abound... Super churches and strip clubs are always popping up around here :)
 
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SweepTheLeg said:
Could it be that this "dumbing down" is being contributed by the fact that the state of Texas is the one that gets to decide what will and won't be mentioned in school books?

LOOL.. I'm sure ... like almost every other state, political and religious factions have their own agendas that seldom benefit the long term. Recently in a fairly prominent case here, it was a fight about including Darwinism as well as Creationism. Texas being one of the largest consumers of textbooks, has in the past effected the "facts" contained within said books that are also used nation wide. Thats why most states screen the books before adopting them for local use and pick whatever is closest to their local ideology. Now however with the widespread use electronic media, the Tx. influence is diminishing somewhat. The "dumbing down" tho is not a recent thing. It's been sliding for at least the last 2 decades, from what I have seen.
 
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I know. was merely poking fun. I do think public schools could and should do more educating on both the bare basics and preparing people for what real life is like but hell all that has to be mentioned to prevent any of that is taxes and the increasing of said taxes and everyone will go whoa! money? for kids to learn? Ridiculous! At the same time, for parents to feel that a school should be the only place their kid should learn anything are dead wrong and as lazy as those who use the television as a babysitter.

On a lighter note a high school in the City I live just recently ranked in the top 10 for being one of the best high schools across the nation and what not. hazaa.
 
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Khanacademy.org

The Khan Academy is an organization on a mission. They are a not-for-profit with the goal of changing education for the better by providing a free world-class education to anyone anywhere.

just thought I would share..
 
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