A Camgirl asks on r/legaladvice about Drunken Regrets

[JubalCobb]

-a drunk guy gives a camgirl 25k over a 3 hour time period.
-She works on a personal site.
-She does femdom stuff, including financial domination.

When guy sobers up, says he paid way more than the going rate for a show, and demands 24k of the 25 back or he'll sue.

link: https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvic...m_a_cam_girl_some_guy_gave_me_a_lot_of_money/

Doesn't say how the money was transferred. (ie. is this moot because he can reverse the transaction anyway)
At this point it doesn't say if she knew he was drunk.

Should camgirls "cut off" people like a casino or a bartender?
Is the intoxication defense a legitimate one for overspending?

 

[Ava Nicole]

I wonder how he even sent her $25k. Western Union? Most ways to transfer money are going to question a lump sum that large. I kinda feel like that's a move that would take a lot of pre-meditated action. I don't even think PayPal allows you to move that much money in one transaction.

 

[Puffin]

I wonder if there is any evidence of being drunk?

I'm guessing a sites T & C and the state/country laws applicable are important to the situation.

 

[Sevrin]

I wonder if there is any evidence of being drunk?

I'm guessing a sites T & C and the state/country laws applicable are important to the situation.

It was a personal site, and it doesn't sound like she has a lawyer to ask for advice.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

You can move large quantities of money quickly with a wire transfer. I also tried with Paypal and it appeared to let me do it.

Reading the reddit it appears she has her own website.

I'm unfamiliar with FinDom and its appeal is completely lost on me. If I after ask for findom you know my account has been hacked.. But isn't likely that she ask questions, like what is card limit is or what's is in his bank account, and over a period of a few hours convince/encouraged/manipulated him to send all the money.

The legal questions are pretty interesting. But keeping the whole 25k seems really greedy.

 

[Shaun__]

I have heard about strip clubs having to give refunds to drunk patrons before.

The leading case on buying expensive shit while drunk off your face turns out to be Matthews v. Baxter from 1873 (see? I told you it wasn’t a nanny state socialist thing). It seems to loosely state that a contract formed while drunk enough that you can’t understand a decision at all is voidable (although not void), so if you take steps to repudiate the contract at the first opportunity on sobering up, you can maybe get out of it. If not, suck it up, that counts as ratification. On the other side, if you reaffirm the contract when you’ve sobered up, congratulations, you are the proud, non-repudiable owner of 20 champagne rooms.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

If you have a verified account on paypal they limit each transaction to $10,000. However there's no limit overall how much can be sent. So do three transactions and the $25,000 in question could be done through Paypal in a matter of minutes.

 

[Teagan]

She is not greedy. She did not supply him with alcohol, he drank on his own and got on a website(if he was even drunk really.) she should not have to give him a penny back cause he had buyers remorse. To fucking bad for him. We are not sitting there serving drinks like a bar seeing someone in person and if they are drunk or not. Therefore it's not our responsibility to cut them off. It's his responsibility to drink like an adult. I Don't care one iota he woke up the next day and regretted the amount he blew. He should suck it up and realize lesson learned.

 

[nikki_bbw]

If he's into financial domination, isn't that kind of the point? To be "drained" of your money. I guess shit got real and he wasn't as into it as he thought lol.

I agree with Teagan. We are not baby sitters, nor could we ever be. We're not even in the same room with them, much less supplying alcohol. Anyone can say they were drunk if that's the case, for spending any amount of money then regretting it later. Sorry guy. Too bad, so sad. Tough break. And all the other cliches I don't feel like listing.

 

[dilligaf0]

The guy should take responsibility for his own actions and learn from his mistake.

 

[Diana Blake]

I don't think a model should be responsible for the state of their client. We're an adult service and as an adult partaking in the service you are expected to know your own limits. With FinDom there is almost always talk of what is expected to be paid in the beginning and then if that number is unacceptable for either party they can move on to another more acceptable partner. However, every person into FinDom is expected to know their own limits and stick to them themselves. A man may get off on the idea of being drained but it's expected that he not take it too far, he's the only one with eyes on his bank account. Despite what modern media likes to believe, men are stronger than their boners. We aren't your mama or your girlfriend, we don't know your monthly budget and we're not responsible for you paying your rent on time.

He's an adult. Your sales clerk doesn't say "Hey, are you sober enough to buy this George Foreman grill, magnetic healing bracelet and jumbo pack of pizza rolls?" when you show up at the store at 2 in the morning. If you choose to get drunk that choice has consequences. I don't get drunk and go on amazon because I know what will happen. (Hello, half a dozen dildos and a Deadpool plushy) I take steps to stop myself from doing things I know I will regret or that endanger me. Because the only one responsible for me is me.

If it's a case of say...she told him to take a shot every time he sent her a $100 that's one thing. Getting drunk on his own and then regretting what he did while drunk? Suck it up, Buttercup.

 

[Snowie1969]

I agree.. we all make mistakes.. his was one that cost him 25k (when was the last time I could spend that on a model? oh wait.. I never could). She should win this case in my humble opinion.. but sadly I am neither judge nor elligible for jury duty in the USA.

 

[gingerhobbit]

I have heard about strip clubs having to give refunds to drunk patrons before.

I suspect this would be different because, unlike the strip club, the camgirl did not serve him the alcohol. A club assumes certain liabilities when it serves alcohol to patrons; it also has to abide by state laws governing liquor licenses. An independent camgirl does not.

Technically, the money he paid her was a gift. You can't sue to recover a gift because there is no enforceable contract, unless she promised a specific service or product in exchange for the money. Based on her Reddit post, I don't see where this was an exchange of money for any kind of service. He gave the money freely and she is free to do whatever she wants with it.

Sounds like he just paid his dues to join the dumbass club.

 

[gingerhobbit]

Lol...further down in the same thread, she says she has another guy who wears a chastity belt and pays her to keep the keys for him. I am soooo in the wrong line of work. Damn you, penis.

 

[mynameisbob84]

I always assumed that a "good" financial domme will have a clear idea of her financial slave's finances and responsibilities and know how much is an appropriate amount to take from them. I guess that, in addition to said "good" findoms who are ultimately providing a fantasy and not looking to legitimately ruin someone's life, there are "bad" findoms who really don't care about their clients/slaves and are just out to take as much as they can get. It's possible this model falls in to the latter category more so than the former.

That said, regardless of the model's moral compass, the member has to take accountability for himself. Nobody forced him to do anything he didn't want to do in that moment. He may regret it now, but if we took people to court every time we did something of our own volition that we later regretted, we'd all be spending an inordinate amount of time in court.

The only possible scenario I can envision in which this guy would be in the right, is if he and the model where doing some kind of consensual blackmail roleplay and the model threatened to use his information in ways that weren't agreed upon beforehand lest he fork over $25k.

 

[PunkInDrublic]

How drunk was this dude really if he was still able to look at a screen without getting the spins and passing out? Let the record show that this man was merely a bit tipsy during the time of these transactions your honor.

 

[gingerhobbit]

Does it count as being drunk if all the blood's rushed from your head to your dick and left you a bit dizzy?

 

[dilligaf0]

I suspect this would be different because, unlike the strip club, the camgirl did not serve him the alcohol. A club assumes certain liabilities when it serves alcohol to patrons; it also has to abide by state laws governing liquor licenses. An independent camgirl does not.

Technically, the money he paid her was a gift. You can't sue to recover a gift because there is no enforceable contract, unless she promised a specific service or product in exchange for the money. Based on her Reddit post, I don't see where this was an exchange of money for any kind of service. He gave the money freely and she is free to do whatever she wants with it.

Sounds like he just paid his dues to join the dumbass club.

He didn't just pay dues, he bought the lifetime membership.

 

[Shaun__]

I suspect this would be different because, unlike the strip club, the camgirl did not serve him the alcohol. A club assumes certain liabilities when it serves alcohol to patrons; it also has to abide by state laws governing liquor licenses. An independent camgirl does not.

Technically, the money he paid her was a gift. You can't sue to recover a gift because there is no enforceable contract, unless she promised a specific service or product in exchange for the money. Based on her Reddit post, I don't see where this was an exchange of money for any kind of service. He gave the money freely and she is free to do whatever she wants with it.

Sounds like he just paid his dues to join the dumbass club.

No one seems to be reading what I quoted for some reason. The legal stuff seems to be if you are drunk and make an effort to void a contract as soon as you sober up then it is possible to do so. It does not matter where or how the person got drunk, the law expects you to negotiate in good faith not take advantage of the drunk person.

I am surprised no models are worried about their real name and locations being released in the court paperwork if something like this went to trail too.

 

[AerynShade]

@Shaun__ What you posted said that if he made an attempt as soon as he was sober he could maybe get out of it. What the model posted said this all happened a couple weeks ago, and he recently said he wanted his money back. So, it sounds like he didn't make that effort.

We can't worry about ALL THE THINGS all the time. We'd go nuts. I'll start worrying about this sort of situation the day someone gives me $25,000.

The model could be a really awesome findom, and have talked to him about his limits. And he could have lied to her and said he was a millionaire. Hell, he could be a millionaire and just want his money back because his wife found out.

 

[Shaun__]

@Shaun__ What you posted said that if he made an attempt as soon as he was sober he could maybe get out of it. What the model posted said this all happened a couple weeks ago, and he recently said he wanted his money back. So, it sounds like he didn't make that effort.

We can't worry about ALL THE THINGS all the time. We'd go nuts. I'll start worrying about this sort of situation the day someone gives me $25,000.

The model could be a really awesome findom, and have talked to him about his limits. And he could have lied to her and said he was a millionaire. Hell, he could be a millionaire and just want his money back because his wife found out.

If it was a couple weeks ago, then he lost his chance to void the contract like you said.

 

[Jillybean]

What scares me the most is how does he have enough information about her to sue her?

Or why does she believe that he does?

If you want to file a civil suit you have to know the person you are suing.

This is a lot of money and if this man is desperate I really hope he doesn't have any of her personal information.

I totally agree though, that he has no legal ground to stand on. Especially after reading the comments from Reddit's lawyer community.

 

[Zoomer]

It depends whether she intentionally milked him for money beyond any reasonable levels whilst knowing he was drunk. It's easy to read one side of a story and immediately identify and/or sympathise with that person - dismissing the other person with "it's all their fault".

But with such a considerable sum of money - I'd say she should lawyer up and this should go to court. Or the Police (if a crime has been committed).

Before anyone says "what crime" - I'm not drawing a parallel - but there are examples where taking advantage of someone in an intoxicated state to the point that they cannot reasonably be expected to make a judgement call and/or agree to the action does happen. This is just a different variant and it should be dealt with seriously, and correctly.

Brushing it off as "his own fault" is not acceptable when considering such life changing sums of money. At least in my opinion...
Am I saying she's at fault? No... perhaps he wasn't drunk! But that's not for me to decide and that's what courts are for.

 

[Diana Blake]

@Jillybean More than likely since she had a personal site he's suing the site itself. More he is taking the business to court rather than her herself

 

[Jillybean]

@DianaBlake Idk how that works but I'm thinking that unless she's incorporated and registered the site under the company, that he is going to sue her. He'll have to have a lawyer contact the webhost though to get her information in that case?

Who wants to have that conversation with their lawyer?

"I was really drunk, and I have a fetish for women draining my bank account, and well, one did."

I'll have to get in touch with my lawyer friend to ask exactly how hard he would laugh at a client like this.

 

[gingerhobbit]

My guess is that the "lawsuit" is just a bunch of huffing and puffing on his part. She's 18. It's a whole lot easier to bully a kid with scary threats of lawsuits than to actually follow through with it.

Besides, if he did, he'd become a great big public joke. There's a pretty good chance the documents would be public record, and this is just the kind of thing the media loves to pick up. When that lawyer in Miami spent $18k in a strip club and filed a lawsuit a few years ago, it made international headlines.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for him. She didn't hold a gun to his head. He just let his dick do his thinking and every guy has had to learn that lesson, sometimes more than once.

A few years ago, I was in Paris and went to one of those strip clubs in the Pigalle quarter that specialize in ripping off tourists. We knew it was one of those joints where you had to be careful, but we figured we'd just have a few beers.

I paid, thinking it shouldn't be more than $50 or $60. But a Brazilian girl with a world-class ass sat on my lap before the waitress came over, so I was a little distracted when I signed the credit card receipt.

Fast forward a month or so, and the credit card bill comes. I'd signed a charge slip for nearly $2,000. That's a lot of money for me, but it was my dumb fucking ass that did it, so I had to pay up. It was a painful lesson, but that's what happens when your dick overpowers your brain.

Now, is she a good person for keeping what, like Zoomer said, could be a life-changing amount of money? Probably not. Then again, how much is enough for indulging some random dude's fantasies?

But ultimately, when money leaves your pocket, unless the other person stole it by force, it's on you.

ETA: If he's drinking to the point of giving away $25k he can't afford to lose, it might be time to seek some treatment.

 

[Teagan]

More than likely this guy is just gonna charge back the money and she's gonna be out every penny and the fees. It'd be easy for him to do and her only recourse would be then to sue him.

 

[gingerhobbit]

More than likely this guy is just gonna charge back the money and she's gonna be out every penny and the fees. It'd be easy for him to do and her only recourse would be then to sue him.

You can do that without having a legit reason?

 

[Jimmy9]

Wouldn't the guy have to prove he was drunk to have any case at all? Which would be pretty much impossible to do unless he had a recording of himself.

 

[Teagan]

You can do that without having a legit reason?

He can claim fraud. That can mean many things including cohersion. Or he could lie and say it was stolen and take his chances she won't sue him and his card company bust him on the lie.