17 yr old, Rehtaeh Parsons *Trigger Warning*

[Albert_1]

This is disgusting. The RCMP in Nova Scotia is a joke especially when it comes to letting minors get away with shit. If the rapists were under 18 when they did it I wont hold my breath for anything to be done about it.

 

[Jupiter551]

Police have reopened the case.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/nat ... e11160563/

Obviously I hope justice is done but god it's hard to not be cynical about them reopening it too late, and due to public pressure.

 

[Remykins]

I used to live in Nova Scotia, in the city where this happened and I can vouch that the police there are a lot more lax about shit than in other parts of the country. Its pretty disgusting when you see cases like these not be taken care of.

 

[bawksy]

Why can't I find this original post by bawksy? Was it deleted?

https://www.ambercutie.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=328163#p328163

It wasn't that long ago for me when I was 17 and I remember how it felt. The hormones, the lack of logic [...]

Oh god, the irony.

Have you been raped? So why are you giving your opinion on it? Do you know what it feels like?

No. I have not been raped. I am so sorry for expressing my opinion that

[...] rape is a terrible crime.

But if you pay attention to my post, you'll see that it's actually an opinion piece on suicide. And, while not having ever attempted suicide myself, I do have some experience in the matter.

Not to mention this is a child. She does not possess the rationality or logic of an adult.

I'm not sure how it works in Canada, but in most parts of the USA, 17 year olds can be tried as adults for murder. And suicide is murder.

This girl is not a coward for wanting to remove her pain.

The girl was almost 18, and she had her whole life in front of her. In a few months, she'd be done with school, and then she could have moved anywhere in the world to start her life over. I'm not trying to downplay how painful this experience was for her. But she is absolutely a coward for taking the easy way out.

You really should think before posting on a forum that is full of women on a subject you really know nothing about.

Again, my post was not about rape. It was about suicide. But I think it is quite sexist for you to assume that women "own" the subject of rape. I would have made the same post if it had been the story of a 17 year old homophobic boy who had committed suicide after getting gang ass raped by the Village People.

 

[emptiedglass]

I hope they try them as adults. If they try them as minors, they'll get a slap on the wrist and then their record will eventually be wiped clean. If as adults, the sentence will be a lot more severe, and they'd have to apply for a pardon further on down the road. Plus they'll be officially listed as sex offenders.

 

[Nordling]

Bawksy, I'm not sure why it's important to you to bring even more sadness on this unfortunate woman--after all she's now dead, you now can only hurt those who loved her.

Suicide is not murder, murder is the taking of one person's life by another. Calling a person who takes their own life a "coward" is absurd. It's not even in the same realm as "bravery" or "cowardice." It's more along the lines of an animal being trapped and chewing off its own limb to free itself. Not brave or cowardly, it's what some folks may do when they've simply had enough.

It's not an "easy way out." An easy way out would be if she could have touched "base" and have all the ugliness be over but her left intact.

 

[southsamurai]

possible triggers here

But if you pay attention to my post, you'll see that it's actually an opinion piece on suicide. And, while not having ever attempted suicide myself, I do have some experience in the matter.



The girl was almost 18, and she had her whole life in front of her. In a few months, she'd be done with school, and then she could have moved anywhere in the world to start her life over. I'm not trying to downplay how painful this experience was for her. But she is absolutely a coward for taking the easy way out.

did a lot of snipping there to get to the core of things. first off a question. what experience? if you have never made the attempt, then that excludes direct experience. did you work in suicide prevention, mental health in some form? or (and this is what i think based on your phrasing) is your experience that of having lost someone to suicide?

i think the latter since the only people i have ever known to call it cowardice either lost someone close to them in that manner, or were just arrogant, ignorant assholes. nothing i have ever seen bawksy write indicates that he is ignorant. might be some arrogance here and there, but not so much that it is annoying most of the time. and assholedom is a matter of perspective really. most of the asshole things he says tend to be for the purpose of debate and have some humor or devil's advocacy behind them... you know, the smart, entertaining trolling type.

since the thread is already derailed onto this side subject (which imo is just lame as hell. no need at all to focus on the good/bad of suicide inside of a thread that starts with something already horrible and ugly) ill throw in on it.
you see, i've dealt with depression for decades. ptsd as well. heck in the last 5 years i've faced about every kind of neurosis in some facet. even with medication, therapy and a good support network i have to convince myself every single day that it is worth it to not end myself. i get to look forward to the rest of my life filled with physical pain. life that will slowly progress to not being able to walk, to not being able to even sit upright without large amounts of pain medication. i've made it 5 years and so far i've always found at least one reason. i have no idea how many more i can go before i check the hell out of this shithole we call life. if i decide to do so it will be with thought and planning so that my loved ones dont have to clean up a huge mess. ill make sure all my details are handled and the get the hell out of here.
is that cowardice? or is it simply breaking under the stress of prolonged pain? no human can claim to not be able to break. enough pain, enough loss, enough misery will break anyone.

if you as an individual have never felt the kind of pain that incredible trauma can cause consider yourself lucky. if you have never had to struggle to find just one single reason to not end it, good for you. but be damn careful before you throw judgement on another person and their pain. or at least really try to imagine what they went through, what was inside of them that drove them to the breaking point.

the next section contains probable triggers for victims of assault, please do not continue if you may be upset by such

you see, that little girl (and that is what she was) had several stronger, larger males hold her down and force themselves into her body. over and over they took her strength, her security and her sense of self. the used her like a piece of meat and laughed and took pictures while they did it. now, instead of being able to survive that and start healing the boys in question decided to brag and spread their venom further.
so every damn day this little girl not only had to relive the experience, probably to the point that she could feel it, hear the sounds of their laughter, their grunts and groans, smell their sweat while it dripped on her, but then, oh joy of joys she gets harassed and degraded further by people that werent even there.
and the degradation was public. she COULD NOT ESCAPE the trauma. she had no chance to heal and recover. the only way she could possibly have had that chance was to be taken out of her normal life and be placed in intensive psychological care in a facility. and trust me on this, that is no place of joy and peace to look forward to.

so, cowardice? no. hell no. a disgusting, horrible tragedy. a child who did not yet have the skills or brain development to have the chance to make sound choices in the first place got pushed and pushed past her breaking point. what she did was now cowardly, it was desperate. a frantic attempt to escape pain.

i have lost more than one person to suicide over the years, so i understand how that pain can make a person bitter and angry. i've lost count of how many times i have seen another human being die and it never ever gets easier. i have also seen how damn often death is not some horrible thing to fear and hate. after enough suffering death is a release, a relief, the ultimate palliative remedy.

so, bawksy, and anyone else that thinks that suicide is inherently cowardly; i dont ask you to change your opinion. i dont ask you to even keep it to yourself. all i ask is that before you place that judgement on another pain wracked soul that you take a few moments and really truly imagine yourself going through what they are. then say what you feel and think, whatever it may be. (well, and that you expect others to not enjoy your expression of that thought since it seems and feels callous and cold to the rest of us)

 

[Kickaz]

I really am sick and tired of the social stigma of mental disorders and especially suicide. It's easy for people to judge when they have no clue what is going on, or is it because of our old religious society and we just won't let go.
Either way I just wanted to share something from suicide.org about this...

If you had a broken leg, you would go to a hospital immediately. There would be no hesitation, and no consideration about what others would "think." And after you left the hospital, you would not hide out in your house because you would be afraid of being discriminated against because of your "condition." You would just go on with your life.

No big deal. A broken leg. A cast. And in a few months, a healed bone.

But what if a stigma was attached to having a broken leg? Then what? What if you could lose your job because of it? What if people would treat you differently because of it? What if people said that you were weak because of it? Weak? Yes. Only weak people get broken legs. So, you are weak! And what if people told you that your broken leg was all in you mind? That you just needed to be "strong"? That you were choosing to have a broken leg? And what if you lost friends because of your broken leg? Remember--you are a weak person for having a broken leg, and don't you ever forget it. And what if people whispered behind your back about you because of your broken leg? After all, only crazy people have broken legs. You didn't know that? Well now you do. You are crazy! That's right, crazy!

So you are ridiculed incessantly, become a pariah, lose your job, lose friends, and now you start believing that you actually are weak and crazy. And the pain of the broken leg is unbearable because you never sought treatment. How could you? The "broken-leg stigma" prevented you from getting help.

So you begin having suicidal thoughts. You want to end it all. You cannot go on.

Sound far fetched? Unfortunately this scenario unfolds every day. And it certainly could happen to you, except not with a broken leg, but with a mental illness.

Because of the stigma (the ignorant stigma, mind you) that still exists concerning mental illness, many people who need help do not seek it. Even though there is clear scientific data that indicates irrefutably that a physical connection exists with most mental disorders, many people still stigmatize others because they stupidly hold on to the misguided beliefs of yesteryear that people with mental disorders are weak or just lack will power.

 

[Jupiter551]

Not to mention when this happened, the girl was 15. I have zero doubt that with the trauma of the assault and then the constant reminders and bullying, her last 2 years have been all about that night. Try to imagine how powerless and alone she must have felt - first to be brutalized by force by her schoolmates, and then to have the police sit idly by as the sheer audacity of her attackers becomes apparent circulating images of the event, confident they'll never be prosecuted.

That's powerlessness. Powerless to stop them, powerless to punish them, powerless in the face of the continued harassment...maybe power over her own life and death was the one thing she felt she had left?

 

[SierraTonin]

Dissecting my post ehhh .
@Bawksy

I wasn't directly asking you if something has ever happened to you, It was really rhetorical. I apologize..Just trying to form a point. I assumed because of the way you posted that post, that NO. Nothing of that nature had happened to you, because you wouldn't be posting what you posted.

This is a rape AND suicide thread, you can't say it's one or the other. Your post was about suicide but it was towards a girl who was raped. So no, your post was about both because it was directed at her. You also can't judge someone else's pain. Some people can handle trauma, some can't. It's their choice to end their life, just like it's anyones choice to do anything. Calling someone a coward for anything they choose to do is not really your prob. She was robbed of any shred of dignity she had, any sense of confidence, and sense of safety. You don't have to feel sorry for her, but you don't need to attack her for wanting to be free.

Also...Canada she's legally an adult? What does that have to do with anything? Does her age also mean she is any more or less important? Look at her face in those pictures, she is a child. She is a young girl. She went to highschool, and had her parents support her. "No legal number" means she isn't a kid. She is not fully developed mentally maybe even physically.

And again, did I say women "own" this forum? Whhhhaaaaattt. Statistically, YES women are sexually assaulted more than men. Men are physically stronger than women. Those are facts. I am not sexist on it, but there are subjects that relate to women more than men. Just like it's rude for a man to cuss like a sailor in a room with a lady in it (although not quite as comparable to this haha) maybe you shouldn't be harsh on a rape subject when there is a lot of women (or anyone with trauma or suicide experiences) on this forum. You don't know who on here has had bad experiences in their lives. I know you may have offended quite a few on here.

You don't have to be sympathetic for her. I understand that.
Btw SouthSamurai really said it well.

 

[SierraTonin]

Also sorry this thread became an argument guys, I seriously never argue with people on forums. I just had to say something. I think the point of this thread was to share thoughts and sympathy for the girl and it turned into a debate.

 

[JickyJuly]

The real problem is that laws against rape and subsequent punishments need to be harsher almost everywhere in the world. If a woman is brave enough to report having been raped, she's automatically made to be on the defense. Everything about her becomes a clue as to how the incident may have been her own fault. What did she wear? What did she say? Anything in her lifestyle that is remotely sexual will be brought to light and used against her. No other crime is reacted to this way. We don't blame people with nice homes for being robbed. We don't blame snazzy dressers for being mugged. Young men are being led to believe that their sexual urges are more important than the safety of women.

 

[Rose]

The real problem is that laws against rape and subsequent punishments need to be harsher almost everywhere in the world. If a woman is brave enough to report having been raped, she's automatically made to be on the defense. Everything about her becomes a clue as to how the incident may have been her own fault. What did she wear? What did she say? Anything in her lifestyle that is remotely sexual will be brought to light and used against her. No other crime is reacted to this way. We don't blame people with nice homes for being robbed. We don't blame snazzy dressers for being mugged. Young men are being led to believe that their sexual urges are more important than the safety of women.

The laws need to be harsher (for the criminal, not the victim) for men who have been raped too. Personally (in my offline life), I know more men who have been sexually assaulted or raped than women. I'm glad that these men feel they can open up to me like that but it also feels like a burden because I know they have significantly less resources available to them than women in their situation.

:twocents-02cents:

 

[bawksy]

The most depressing thing about the entire story is that we're only having this discussion right now because she committed suicide. It certainly was effective in bringing the world's attention to the situation, but it saddens me to think other people in similar situations may be encouraged by her success and may take the same route.

In any case, I think we can all agree that this is quite a catchy tune:

 

[LadyLuna]

I was suicidal a couple times in my life.

The first time, I was 15. I believed that I was a monster. That the world would be better off without me (I will not get into why I was convinced of that, just know that I really truly believed that for years). I hate pain, but knew instinctively that a knife would be the only way I could do it. I lay in bed waiting for my dad to go to sleep. I was pumped with adreneline, and figured out a plan. I would go to the kitchen, get a knife, go to the bathroom, take my clothes off, and cut my throat while lying in the bathtub. I did not want my death to give my parents too much trouble. At 4am my dad finally went to bed. I was pumped full of adreneline, but I knew I had to wait 15 mins for him to go to sleep. So I watched the clock closely, wanting to get it over with asap, before I lost my nerve. I had 2 mins left till I was gonna do it, I blinked and it was 6:30 am and the sun was coming up. I knew my mom would be up to walk the dogs before I could get the knife. To this day, I believe an angel (which I define as a spirit who fights for good) stopped my hand.

The second time was a few months after I started camming. I was still coming to terms with the idea that I would never be a teacher, and my partner and I were living with a toxic couple. He had started taking on some of the bad habits of the "male" partner in the relationship (they were lesbians, but the one was a female who comes off as being a man, and so doesn't really count as a "she" to me... even though she really is female, not trans...). We were close to breaking up, and I was feeling hopeless. See, at the time, I had this crazy belief that if we broke up, we were both as good as dead. But, I wasn't ready to completely give up hope, so I handed all sharp objects to the other couple and said to keep them for three days.

In the first case, my suicide was probably the bravest thing I could've done. I believed I would be going straight to hell, and believed my options were to accept hell for myself or to inflict hell on the rest of the world. I'm not saying I wish it had happened, just that I wasn't being a coward in contemplating it.

In the second case, my suicidal thoughts were purely selfish. I knew at the time that there were many people who would be very very hurt if I did it and yet I still desired to stop my own pain. That was cowardly.

And yes, I do still kinda have the belief that prompted the second one, but my thoughts are that if it happens and we break up, I will do my damndest to disprove that belief.

 

[Throbbin_One]

I was suicidal a couple times in my life.

The first time, I was 15. I believed that I was a monster. That the world would be better off without me (I will not get into why I was convinced of that, just know that I really truly believed that for years). I hate pain, but knew instinctively that a knife would be the only way I could do it. I lay in bed waiting for my dad to go to sleep. I was pumped with adreneline, and figured out a plan. I would go to the kitchen, get a knife, go to the bathroom, take my clothes off, and cut my throat while lying in the bathtub. I did not want my death to give my parents too much trouble. At 4am my dad finally went to bed. I was pumped full of adreneline, but I knew I had to wait 15 mins for him to go to sleep. So I watched the clock closely, wanting to get it over with asap, before I lost my nerve. I had 2 mins left till I was gonna do it, I blinked and it was 6:30 am and the sun was coming up. I knew my mom would be up to walk the dogs before I could get the knife. To this day, I believe an angel (which I define as a spirit who fights for good) stopped my hand.

The second time was a few months after I started camming. I was still coming to terms with the idea that I would never be a teacher, and my partner and I were living with a toxic couple. He had started taking on some of the bad habits of the "male" partner in the relationship (they were lesbians, but the one was a female who comes off as being a man, and so doesn't really count as a "she" to me... even though she really is female, not trans...). We were close to breaking up, and I was feeling hopeless. See, at the time, I had this crazy belief that if we broke up, we were both as good as dead. But, I wasn't ready to completely give up hope, so I handed all sharp objects to the other couple and said to keep them for three days.

In the first case, my suicide was probably the bravest thing I could've done. I believed I would be going straight to hell, and believed my options were to accept hell for myself or to inflict hell on the rest of the world. I'm not saying I wish it had happened, just that I wasn't being a coward in contemplating it.

In the second case, my suicidal thoughts were purely selfish. I knew at the time that there were many people who would be very very hurt if I did it and yet I still desired to stop my own pain. That was cowardly.

And yes, I do still kinda have the belief that prompted the second one, but my thoughts are that if it happens and we break up, I will do my damndest to disprove that belief.

I'm glad you were strong enough to work through that as I enjoy who you are and what you say!

Unfortunately, not everyone is this strong. The difference is that some take their lives for 'no apparent reason', and others are coerced into it. If a physically challenged person was thrown into the ring, in a fight to the death, against the ultimate warrior, it seems like it would be a foolish decision, right? However, if I forced that same person to fight, then it's all on me.

The world is so complicated today that these 'INDIRECT' tradegy's need to be looked at. Any smart person, imo, can see that this social media crap is out of control. It's time that we start paying attention to these indirect reasons, and treating them with the seriousness they deserve. Finally, to blame the victim in this case is the very essence of the problem, imo!

 

[Just Me]

The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

 

[Throbbin_One]

The so-called ‘psychotically depressed’ person who tries to kill herself doesn’t do so out of quote ‘hopelessness’ or any abstract conviction that life’s assets and debits do not square. And surely not because death seems suddenly appealing. The person in whom invisible agony reaches a certain unendurable level will kill herself the same way a trapped person will eventually jump from the window of a burning high-rise. Make no mistake about people who leap from burning windows. Their terror of falling from a great height is still just as great as it would be for you or me standing speculatively at the same window just checking out the view; i.e. the fear of falling remains a constant. The variable here is the other terror, the fire’s flames: when the flames get close enough, falling to death becomes the slightly less terrible of two terrors. It’s not desiring the fall; it’s terror of the flames. And yet nobody down on the sidewalk, looking up and yelling ‘Don’t!’ and ‘Hang on!’, can understand the jump. Not really. You’d have to have personally been trapped and felt flames to really understand a terror way beyond falling.

You pretty much said the same thing as I did. Here, the fire coerced this person (her?) into choosing to jump from a highrise which is normally a suicidal decision. People who witness this, question the jump, without ever wondering who started the fire. Go figure ...