Twitter Soapbox - Racism, Sexism etc

[kylexy]

I don't know what country you are from, I can only talk about my experience in England - anything to do with sex crime is looked at as pure evil, monstrous, absolutely abhorrent

It is in all western countries, unfortunately some (many) swallow everything mainstream media feed them.

And no, just because you don't believe in "rape culture", that doesn't mean that you think rape is ok... And fyi, women can be rapists to, something that is often ignored.

 

[JoleneBrody]

One said "I should of taken advantage like I was taught to do" like that's a normal thing for boys to be taught in our culture :| that's mental to me, that's nothing like my experience of life

The other said she is scared of every man she see's basically, which makes you want to say "please know I'm not like that" but then you get the "you can't use that excuse!"

If you want people to know you aren't an asshole, don't be an asshole by diminishing their life experiences and listen to their reasons instead of your ego. I am NOT a fan of the fashionable tumblr feminists movement that is geared more towards being a hateful meanies but I HAVE been harassed a lot and other experiences and do know exactly how it feels to be scared of strange men in the dark because I've been given 10,000 reasons over my years to feel that fear. Not being aware of a group of strange men in the dark when I am alone would be like putting my hand on the hot stove for the 50th time. I've been burned so much so I avoid being burnt again, since the likely hood of a catcall at least is pretty fucking high.

Listen to the reasons behind the fear and realize that the problem we are trying to address is not that group of boys that haven't done anything yet but the past experiences being so frequent that she fears them anyway.

 

[SexySteph]

I don't know what country you are from, I can only talk about my experience in England - anything to do with sex crime is looked at as pure evil, monstrous, absolutely abhorrent

I didn't literally mean that where I'm at people are like "Woo, rape is great!". But in the US 98% of rapists won't receive jail time and only 68% of rapes are reported and victim blaming is everywhere, even if nobody is saying "yeah, I think rape is okay" I'd still say that society doesn't seem to have as much of a problem with sexual violence as they should.

 

[kylexy]

I didn't literally mean that where I'm at people are like "Woo, rape is great!". But in the US 98% of rapists won't receive jail time and only 68% of rapes are reported and victim blaming is everywhere, then even if nobody is saying "yeah, I think rape is okay" I'd still say that society doesn't seem to have as much of a problem with sexual violence as they should.

I guess you mean 98% of the persons being accused of rape? I wonder where you get your numbers from though, feel free to link your sources. If whopping 98% of the people accused of rape go free it should be a nationwide disaster and the legal system should be completely broken.

 

[SexySteph]

I guess you mean 98% of the persons being accused of rape? I wonder where you get your numbers from though, feel free to link your sources. If whopping 98% of the people accused of rape go free it should be a nationwide disaster and the legal system should be completely broken.

https://rainn.org/get-information/statistics/reporting-rates

 

[JoleneBrody]

I guess you mean 98% of the persons being accused of rape? I wonder where you get your numbers from though, feel free to link your sources. If whopping 98% of the people accused of rape go free it should be a nationwide disaster and the legal system should be completely broken.

wait but... people ARE trying to talk about it and treat is as a nationwide disaster and you are just getting mad at them?


Do you have any idea how hard the legal system makes it to convict someone of rape? SUPER hard. Very similar to stalking, it's incredibly difficult and often requires the rape victim being put through an excessive amount of continued trauma. :/

 

[kylexy]

@JoleneBrody Sorry but I have more faith in our legal system than to believe that 98% of people accused of rape go free. That sounds like some heavy conspiratorial sh*t. It's also extremely disturbing that "accused of rape" and "rapist" seem to be the same thing in many peoples eyes.

 

[JickyJuly]

The extremists are the ones who are seen and heard, so therefore they are the ones who define the movement, as sad as it might be.

If you want to believe the loudest person in the room is the only one worth hearing, you get what you get. Most people are sensible enough not to be so lazy when trying to understand something.

 

[JoleneBrody]

@JoleneBrody Sorry but I have more faith in our legal system than to believe that 98% of people accused of rape go free. That sounds like some heavy conspiratorial sh*t. It's also extremely disturbing that "accused of rape" and "rapist" seem to be the same thing in many peoples eyes.

All you would have to do is take a few minutes to research the legalities and requirements around rape convictions in order to understand how this is possible.

 

[kylexy]

If you want to believe the loudest person in the room is the only one worth hearing, you get what you get. Most people are sensible enough not to be so lazy when trying to understand something.

So you don't think it's a problem that the extremists get all the space in media?

Please show me some examples of (what you call) feminists speaking up against the extremists.

All you would have to do is take a few minutes to research the legalities and requirements around rape convictions in order to understand how this is possible.

Please show me a legit source

 

[SexySteph]

@JoleneBrody Sorry but I have more faith in our legal system than to believe that 98% of people accused of rape go free. That sounds like some heavy conspiratorial sh*t. It's also extremely disturbing that "accused of rape" and "rapist" seem to be the same thing in many peoples eyes.

Statistics say that an EXTREME minority of rape reports are false claims.

Which makes sense because really, why would someone lie to the police about being raped. If it goes to court you'll likely have your entire story ripped apart down to what you were wearing or your number of past sexual partners to prove that what you claim was unconsensual was actually consensual. Not only that but there's a good chance that you'll be publicly shamed by people that don't believe you. Why put yourself through that if you're lying?

 

[JoleneBrody]

So you don't think it's a problem that the extremists get all the space in media?

Please show me some examples of (what you call) feminists speaking up against the extremists.


Please show me a legit source

quit being lazy

 

[JickyJuly]

Trying to decide which is more annoying extremists that call themselves feminists or demanding crybabies who call themselves men. Tough one. I blame patriarchy for both. Damn patriarchy. Sheesh. Ultimately, you can believe whatever you like. But, running around suggesting things are made up because of a few idiots and requesting that others spoon feed you information in order to win you over is ridiculous. You're not that special.

 

[kylexy]

@SexySteph : How can you know how many of the rape reports that are false? Unless the accuser confesses that he/she lied, how can you ever know? I'm not saying that a majority of them are, but treating persons accused of rape as rapists before they have been found guilty in a court of law is simply disgusting.

Your reasoning "Why would people lie?" is extremely flawed. That's like saying "Why would people kill? Why would people steal? They know they can go to jail."

Trying to decide which is more annoying extremists that call themselves feminists or demanding crybabies who call themselves men. Tough one. I blame patriarchy for both. Damn patriarchy. Sheesh. Ultimately, you can believe whatever you like. But, running around suggesting things are made up because of a few idiots and requesting that others spoon feed you information in order to win you over is ridiculous. You're not that special.

I take it as you have no examples of feminists speaking up against extremists then.

 

[SexySteph]

I take it as you have no examples of feminists speaking up against extremists then.

You're basically asking that we regularly screenshot when we see this happening and save it so that we can dispute when people like you claim it doesn't happen. It's not like you can google "Example of feminists speaking up against extremists" and find concise proof.

 

[JoleneBrody]

Jicky is a feminist speaking up against extremists RIGHT in the post you quoted...

 

[MFCGod]

If you want people to know you aren't an asshole, don't be an asshole by diminishing their life experiences and listen to their reasons instead of your ego.

I was thinking about this while I walked to/back from the shop

I do have an ego about being a good person, it's one of the main things I take pride in as a human being

When reading something like that tweet, being pigeonholed as a rapist without even being able to proclaim my innocence, of course that's going to be a road block for wanting me to read on and be open; If I first have to agree I'm a monster or part of the problem, I can't do that, it goes too far against my view of self and reality.

When expressing opinions, how you say them is often just as important as what you're saying, they have to be made palatable otherwise there's no point saying them

Being intolerant of man saying "I'm not like that" is counter productive, puts up a road block, might as well end the conversation there.

 

[kylexy]

It's usually the one who claims something that should back the claim up. "Just google it" or "I'm not here to educate you" are common answers when you're unable to do so. But hey, I'm just a stupid male, what do I know?

Let's hear a fellow camgirls POV instead:
http://aellaabroad.com/2014/03/21/why-i-am-not-a-feminist/




Recommend this one as well: https://www.facebook.com/WomenAgainstFeminism

 

[JickyJuly]

No one without major psychiatric issues is suggesting all men are rapists. So, it is unnecessary and disruptive to take the not all men stance. If you're encountering a woman who suggests that having a penis makes you a sexual predator, step quickly away from her. Maybe pray for her. If you can't have a conversation about people as a whole without interjecting and defending yourself, just don't engage.

Edit to add: finding a woman who agrees with you about feminism doesn't make you right. Feminism is for all genders. All genders need it equally. Plenty of men understand that. Plenty of women do not yet. That's the "i can't be racist because I have black friends" route. Cliche as hell.

 

[kylexy]

I wouldn't exactly call your shots at me as a person "a conversation about people as a whole" but ok, to each his own.

 

[SexySteph]

When reading something like that tweet, being pigeonholed as a rapist without even being able to proclaim my innocence, of course that's going to be a road block for wanting me to read on and be open; If I first have to agree I'm a monster or part of the problem, I can't do that, it goes too far against my view of self and reality.

But no one in those tweets said "men are rapists" or anything at all pigeonholing all men as rapists or creeps or anything. You took it personally and it wasn't even a generalization.

 

[marchards]

The "rape culture" hypothesis is so unhelpful that even the largest anti-sexual assault organisation in the country has advised against using it. Maybe we should just take their advice?

In any case, most conversations about "rape culture" go like this, at least in my case:

Someone: X and Y and Z are true, therefore "rape culture".
Me: But X isn't true (link), Y is completely unknown (by definition) and Z is a misunderstanding based on faulty statistics (link).
Someone: Yes, but "rape culture" anyway.
Me: What do you mean? You assured me that you believed in "rape culture" for those reasons. And I've demonstrated that those reasons are all wrong.
Someone: Why do you hate women? Why are you defending rape?
Me: ...

"Feminist ideology is like a new religion... You can’t talk to them about anything."
- Camille Paglia​

 

[JoleneBrody]

I was thinking about this while I walked to/back from the shop

I do have an ego about being a good person, it's one of the main things I take pride in as a human being

When reading something like that tweet, being pigeonholed as a rapist without even being able to proclaim my innocence, of course that's going to be a road block for wanting me to read on and be open; If I first have to agree I'm a monster or part of the problem, I can't do that, it goes too far against my view of self and reality.

When expressing opinions, how you say them is often just as important as what you're saying, they have to be made palatable otherwise there's no point saying them

Being intolerant of man saying "I'm not like that" is counter productive, puts up a road block, might as well end the conversation there.

I can absolutely see where you are coming from despite disagreeing to a small degree. I really only disagree that the tweets you posted pigeon hole you or force you to admit you are a bad person first.

 

[JickyJuly]

Doesn't rape culture just mean we coddle men who think talking about rape is an insult to them personally while we teach women that strange men are a danger to their twats? Because... this whole thread pretty much illustrates those ideas.

 

[SexySteph]

The "rape culture" hypothesis is so unhelpful that even the largest anti-sexual assault organisation in the country has advised against using it. Maybe we should just take their advice?

They're not saying that it doesn't exist though. They're basically saying "yeah, rape culture is totally a thing but if we look at it as a whole we can never escape it, we need to break it down to the individual issues" sort of like when your house is a mess, if you look at it and just go "wow, my whole house is a mess" you're not going to fix it unless you break it down into smaller pieces and work on each individual piece.

 

[MFCGod]

But no one in those tweets said "men are rapists" or anything at all pigeonholing all men as rapists or creeps or anything. You took it personally and it wasn't even a generalization.

The first tweet said boys are taught to rape

The second tweet said she see's everyone, random men about the world as potential rapists

I'm a random man about the world that she might see, it's awful she might think I'm a potential rapist

Wanting to express I'm not is pretty normal, going on to say "it's not every man" isn't an excuse and it part of problem takes away my ability to express that

That's what I don't like about those tweets

 

[gingerhobbit]

Any person who feels wronged/scared/concerned over an issue just wants to be heard. Period. When a person expresses those feelings to another person and the immediate response is "yeah, but not everybody," that person does not feel heard. Especially when "not everybody" is a universally understood thing that doesn't really need to be said.

Social issues do not occur in a vacuum, either. They are like a pendulum, swinging back and forth. For years, women have been struggling to get our society to listen and acknowledge that there is a "rape culture" (which there is, make no mistake about that). That is finally starting to happen, painfully slowly. The pendulum has been hanging to the side of the rape-deniers and now it's starting to swing...and yes, when a pendulum swings, sometimes it overcompensates.

As men who are not sexual harassers, or rapists or upholders of the rape culture status quo, yes, it does become tedious to hear about how terrible men are. But women have waited so long and worked so hard to finally get their voices heard, that we need to just suck it up so they can express what they need to express.

Besides, they are right. A lot of men, probably the majority, are pretty fucking bad to women, and in such a casual, callous way that it often just slips right under the radar of other men.

As for rape statistics and whatnot, everyone who quotes firm statistics is wrong. Everyone. Why? Because the numbers are so fucking hard to pin down and vary so widely.

But, @kylexy, I worked for 11 years as a crime/investigative reporter and another two or three as a private investigator, and I can tell you without reservation that: Sex crimes are under-reported, that false accusations happen, but not nearly as often as you think in comparison to those that did happen, that arrests are very difficult to make, and that convictions are even more difficult.

If you really need me to elaborate, I can. But just to get a glimpse of the realitu, look up the numbers of backlogged rape kits at crime labs all over the country.

 

[MFCGod]

Doesn't rape culture just mean we coddle men who think talking about rape is an insult to them personally while we teach women that strange men are a danger to their twats? Because... this whole thread pretty much illustrates those ideas.

If you want to have an open conversation, it doesn't help to generalise people as monsters and refuse them the opportunity to say "that's not me"

If they say "that's not me" all you need to say is "I understand" and they the conversation can move on

As I keep saying, if you first have to agree you're either a monster or part of the problem, that's going to alienate almost everyone.

 

[SexySteph]

The second tweet said she see's everyone, random men about the world as potential rapists

Imagine that there's a bowl of M&Ms. 1 in 5 of those M&Ms contain a lethal dose of cyanide. You're going to be slightly cautious around each of those M&Ms until you're sure that it's safe. To act otherwise would be dangerous. So yeah, maybe it's hurtful to your feelings but until you're sure that a stranger isn't going to put you in danger you should probably be careful around them.

 

[JickyJuly]

Who thinks you're a monster or a rapist? There's a step in this thought process that I am missing.