Sex Toys - What works, what doesn't and what you would like to see in the future

[NiomiNSFW]

I have a unique opportunity to talk to some developers on the 25th who have worked on Feelperformer (released in Feburary) and Feelconnect. For a bit of context these are basically the equivalent of Lovense Connect and the Lovense Cam Extension for KIIROO, SVAKOM, We-Vibe, Motorbunny, The Cowgirl and Hot Octopus.

I'm not an experienced Cam Model. I've been doing this for only a month but I happen to have a lot more technical experience and I see the benefit in promoting competition to Lovense and how it could drive prices down and give Models more choice.

I appreciate this is essentially free market research so i'm not expecting many responses but I wanted to give an opportunity for Models to give their input on what they want from Toys, what they like, what they would like to see in the future. I'll share my own recommendations below and see if y'all agree.

I don't work for the company that makes Feelperformer and i've been vocal about some issues with the platform that i'd love to see resolved such as timed links not working with the Feel Connect app. This is more an opportunity to see if some ideas can get passed on.

My own thoughts and recommendations:
keep in mind i'm a Trans Woman so my experience will likely be very different to others.

• Other colours than just Black or Blue for Unisex toys. Having a Buttplug in different colours would be amazing. We-Vibe offers one but it's a bit expensive.
• Feature parity with Feelperformer - Feelperformer is missing timed control links and you can't set token prices for individual sites
• A free to use open API - For developers to make tip controlled apps / bots.
• Bringing down the cost of Sex Machines - Through renting machines or cheaper designs. The Lovense Mini Sex machine is great but it still isn't affordable for most.
• More Twitch like functionality - Proper integration with games, something similar to Stream avatars. The ability to develop OBS overlays for tip controlled toys without the fear of getting sued.

 

[Vixxen81]

You'll never get sites to allow anything other than Lovense. I'd cancel the meeting, honestly. I don't mean to be blunt, except that I do. This isn't something they'll be able to change to allow competition when Lovense has cornered the market and has a vast affiliate system in place.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

You'll never get sites to allow anything other than Lovense. I'd cancel the meeting, honestly. I don't mean to be blunt, except that I do. This isn't something they'll be able to change to allow competition when Lovense has cornered the market and has a vast affiliate system in place.

Feelperformer already supports most major Cam Sites.



Similarly Feelconnect has direct support for Streamate, CAM4, XCams, Flirt4Free, SkyPrivate & ImLive.
Feelconnect was introduced before Lovense for some sites such as CAM4 since the main company that maintains Feelconnect is KIIROO which now owns OhMiBod

You're right in the sense that most Cam Sites wont bother to implement Feelpeformer but Feelperformer works instead in spite of this. The extension looks at tips from various different sites in open browser tabs and relays this information to the web app and OBS overlay.

That's not to say integration is out of the question. The problem is there isn't much of an incentive to have direct integration at the moment because the browser extension is new and lacks some features that are vital for a good experience. That's part of the reason why this meeting is taking place.

If you're curious I have this information detailed in a google sheet: https://toys.nsfwsites.info

 

[Vixxen81]

Feelperformer already supports most major Cam Sites.

View attachment 100565

Similarly Feelconnect has direct support for Streamate, CAM4, XCams, Flirt4Free, SkyPrivate & ImLive.
Feelconnect was introduced before Lovense for some sites such as CAM4 since the main company that maintains Feelconnect is KIIROO which now owns OhMiBod

You're right in the sense that most Cam Sites wont bother to implement Feelpeformer but Feelperformer works instead in spite of this. The extension looks at tips from various different sites in open browser tabs and relays this information to the web app and OBS overlay.

That's not to say integration is out of the question. The problem is there isn't much of an incentive to have direct integration at the moment because the browser extension is new and lacks some features that are vital for a good experience. That's part of the reason why this meeting is taking place.

If you're curious I have this information detailed in a google sheet: https://toys.nsfwsites.info

I understand you have direct support to re-stream the broadcasts in a fashion that makes it easier for models working simulcast on multiple sites.

It's like trying to be the new Amazon when Amazon is already a massive powerhouse when it comes to the relationship Lovense has in the industry. Basically you're advertising a new "here's an all in one with some additional toys you probably don't have because Lovense cornered them out of the market." If I'm misunderstanding this aspect, please explain.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

It is important to understand Feelperformer will never reach the same level of popularity as Lovense because Lovense employ some pretty shady business practices that mean they have almost complete control over the market. This doesn't mean other companies can't offer alternatives though and Lovense is based in Hong Kong which has Monopoly laws.

I'll explain why Lovense has complete domination over the market:

1. They have a patent which prevents any other company from making Tip Controlled toys. I know Feelperformer is excluded from this patent likely because they acquired OhMiBod which pre-dates Lovense.
   
   
2. Lovense toys are always on sale - There is no such thing as a discount through Lovense. The most you will get off a product is 5 > 10%. The toys are always on offer which encourages people to spend.
   
   
3. They move into every sector of the Camming industry - For example Fanberry is a new links page alternative. To the end user this is completely free but for Lovense it's just another way to market toys, wish-lists, etc...
   
   
4. Low score reviews are excluded from the site entirely - You'll notice the Lovense Lapis doesn't have a star review section whereas other toys do. Instead "Testimonials" are used.

 

[Vixxen81]

It is important to understand Feelperformer will never reach the same level of popularity as Lovense because Lovense employ some pretty shady business practices that mean they have almost complete control over the market. This doesn't mean other companies can't offer alternatives though and Lovense is based in Hong Kong which has Monopoly laws.

I'll explain why Lovense has complete domination over the market:

1. They have a patent which prevents any other company from making Tip Controlled toys. I know Feelperformer is excluded from this patent likely because they acquired OhMiBod which pre-dates Lovense.
   
   
2. Lovense toys are always on sale - There is no such thing as a discount through Lovense. The most you will get off a product is 5 > 10%. The toys are always on offer which encourages people to spend.
   
   
3. They move into every sector of the Camming industry - For example Fanberry is a new links page alternative. To the end user this is completely free but for Lovense it's just another way to market toys, wish-lists, etc...
   
   
4. Low score reviews are excluded from the site entirely - You'll notice the Lovense Lapis doesn't have a star review section whereas other toys do. Instead "Testimonials" are used.

I know why. I'm asking you why you think people are going to abandon a well-established custom and ubiquitous brand? I've been in this industry for 11 years and without that Lovense reaction happening, I'm not making the kind of money I'm accustomed to and I've tried with it and without more than once. You said yourself you're new to the industry and don't have much insight into how it really works outside of what you know you know. So tell me, how are you going to make it worth my time to check out your products that I already know people are not familiar with and don't care about?

 

[NiomiNSFW]

I understand you have direct support to re-stream the broadcasts in a fashion that makes it easier for models working simulcast on multiple sites.

It's like trying to be the new Amazon when Amazon is already a massive powerhouse when it comes to the relationship Lovense has in the industry. Basically you're advertising a new "here's an all in one with some additional toys you probably don't have because Lovense cornered them out of the market." If I'm misunderstanding this aspect, please explain.

So Feelperformer is more a collaboration between multiple companies to provide some kind of competition in the camming industry. Feelperformer is the result. The web app version is very new and makes use of Bluetooth LTE 4 integration so you can connect toys directly from the browser. The Feelconnect app has been around for a long while now but only worked for some sites.

So essentially yes. This is the alternative to Lovense at the moment. The only alternative. This is mainly due to the fact that Lovense holds a patent on tip connected toys making it impossible for new companies to get a hold on the market.
The only exception I found was Motorbunny which instead of collecting tips in the traditional way calls it Fuel which bypasses this patent.

Another tool does exist called NeocamX. This is likely in violation of the patent but it exists at the moment so i'm happy recommendations it to Models if they can find it useful. I don't want to advertise it much though because I don't know how well it will be maintained in the future.

 

[Vixxen81]

So Feelperformer is more a collaboration between multiple companies to provide some kind of competition in the camming industry. Feelperformer is the result. The web app version is very new and makes use of Bluetooth LTE 4 integration so you can connect toys directly from the browser. The Feelconnect app has been around for a long while now but only worked for some sites.

So essentially yes. This is the alternative to Lovense at the moment. The only alternative. This is mainly due to the fact that Lovense holds a patent on tip connected toys making it impossible for new companies to get a hold on the market.
The only exception I found was Motorbunny which instead of collecting tips in the traditional way calls it Fuel which bypasses this patent.

Another tool does exist called NeocamX. This is likely in violation of the patent but it exists at the moment so i'm happy recommendations it to Models if they can find it useful. I don't want to advertise it much though because I don't know how well it will be maintained in the future.

"here's this thing breaking patent laws but go ahead and use it until you can't any more and hopefully by then we have a better alternative."

This is our income. We can't bank on things that may or may not be there tomorrow.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

I know why. I'm asking you why you think people are going to abandon a well-established custom and ubiquitous brand? I've been in this industry for 11 years and without that Lovense reaction happening, I'm not making the kind of money I'm accustomed to and I've tried with it and without more than once. You said yourself you're new to the industry and don't have much insight into how it really works outside of what you know you know. So tell me, how are you going to make it worth my time to check out your products that I already know people are not familiar with and don't care about?

Oh curious about my intentions I see. So i'm a developer for-most and a Cam Girl second. Lovense has locked me out of providing apps I could have built for other Models to add some additional interactivity like support for Video Games, external platforms like Buttplug.io etc...

I also acknowledge that the way Lovense does things now isn't the best way to do things and that likely wont ever change. For example the support of Bluetooth 4 LTE is a much easier way of connecting toys directly from the browser than using the separate phone app or Lovense Connect App.

I also like some of the other toys a lot more i've come to realise as a Cam performer. I got an Esca 2 dirt cheap for like £30 and it's been my go 2 toy. I was lucky enough to accept a review copy of the Sex Machine they have as well in exchange for giving a review for it.

This meeting isn't in return for anything. It's just something I recommended should take place since I think the direction they where taking wasn't great. For example they had no Unisex category on the site and there are a lot of features missing on the Feelperformer website that need adding.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

"here's this thing breaking patent laws but go ahead and use it until you can't any more and hopefully by then we have a better alternative."

This is our income. We can't bank on things that may or may not be there tomorrow.

True but you're also overpaying for Sex Toys because Lovense has complete control over the market.
Lovense is an absolute behemoth of a company and the chances of them folding is incredibly low if not impossible. I just want to provide suggestions for alternatives.

Feelperformer isn't going anywhere soon. Feelconnect has been around for many years now and is still going strong. It needs improvements, desperately, but this is part of why i'm asking for suggestions.

Because Feelperformer uses Bluetooth LTE 4 the chances of toys becoming outdated or incompatible is impossible as well. Lovense actually uses proprietary technology to connect their toys so if they ever decided to drop support developers wouldn't be able to pick up the pieces.

 

[Vixxen81]

Oh curious about my intentions I see. So i'm a developer for-most and a Cam Girl second. Lovense has locked me out of providing apps I could have built for other Models to add some additional interactivity like support for Video Games, external platforms like Buttplug.io etc...

I also acknowledge that the way Lovense does things now isn't the best way to do things and that likely wont ever change. For example the support of Bluetooth 4 LTE is a much easier way of connecting toys directly from the browser than using the separate phone app or Lovense Connect App.

I also like some of the other toys a lot more i've come to realise as a Cam performer. I got an Esca 2 dirt cheap for like £30 and it's been my go 2 toy. I was lucky enough to accept a review copy of the Sex Machine they have as well in exchange for giving a review for it.

This meeting isn't in return for anything. It's just something I recommended should take place since I think the direction they where taking wasn't great. For example they had no Unisex category on the site and there are a lot of features missing on the Feelperformer website that need adding.

Honey, my app is custom built for me from the ground up and it works with Lovense just fine and I can add or take away anything I want at any time and while that's true on Chaturbate because they allow us to build our apps to our desires within reason I know that isn't true on other sites where it's a generic "spin this thing and get this" situation.

Please don't spend any of your own money on this project. You'll just be throwing it in the trash.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

Honey, my app is custom built for me from the ground up and it works with Lovense just fine and I can add or take away anything I want at any time and while that's true on Chaturbate because they allow us to build our apps to our desires within reason I know that isn't true on other sites where it's a generic "spin this thing and get this" situation.

Please don't spend any of your own money on this project. You'll just be throwing it in the trash.

Honestly most Chaturbate apps don't have direct functionality with the Lovense cam extension. If they do this isn't allowed anyway because Lovense bans anyone from making tip controlled apps. I'm working on an alternative to this already and hopefully should have it published soon. Obviously if you have a custom version then this is different and it would be a bit pointless picking out Feelperformer toys.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

Please don't spend any of your own money on this project. You'll just be throwing it in the trash.

I'm not really sure what you mean by this? I haven't paid any money and will never pay any money for it. KIIROO the main owner of Feelperformer is an established company already and arguably one of the main competitors to Lovense. Just because you haven't heard of the company doesn't mean it isn't well established.

 

[Vixxen81]

Honestly all Chaturbate apps do is list different tip amounts on the page. There is no direct functionality with the lovense cam extension. I'm working on an alternative to this already and hopefully should have it published soon. Obviously if you have a custom version then this is different and it would be a bit pointless picking out Feelperformer toys.

You're 1000% wrong that Chaturbate apps only list tip amounts. I have a custom game that interacts with Lovense software. I'm not the only one. I think you need to go stick your nose in some rooms and see what's really going on before you jump off the ledge and go full tilt for this.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

You're 1000% wrong that Chaturbate apps only list tip amounts. I have a custom game that interacts with Lovense software. I'm not the only one. I think you need to go stick your nose in some rooms and see what's really going on before you jump off the ledge and go full tilt for this.

I mean I started watching Chaturbate streams way before I got into this. Please don't be condescending. Most Cam Models use tip amount bots or overlays. The bots that do integrate with Lovense toys don't use Chaturbate's development platform. The platform is contained within a Sandbox that limits it's functionality. If you have a custom bot it will be a custom solution, likely using event polling to achieve this functionality. If so it's in shady territory anyway since Lovense's patent bans this. This wont matter for small creators but it's likely why you don't see many of these bots on the developer portal publicly.

If you're wondering how I know about the Chaturbate bot development platform. I make bots. I'm a developer formost.

 

[Vixxen81]

I mean I started watching Chaturbate streams way before I got into this. Please don't be condescending. Most Cam Models use tip amount bots or overlays. The bots that do integrate with Lovense toys don't use Chaturbate's development platform. The platform is contained within a Sandbox that limits it's functionality. If you have a custom bot it will be a custom solution, likely using event polling to achieve this functionality. If so it's in shady territory anyway since Lovense's patent bans this. This wont matter for small creators but it's likely why you don't see many of these bots on the developer portal publicly.

If you're wondering how I know about the Chaturbate bot development platform. I make bots. I'm a developer formost.

Bots are different than apps. I'm done with this conversation. Good luck!!

 

[NiomiNSFW]

Bots are different than apps. I'm done with this conversation. Good luck!!

Only for V1 Apps / Bots. Most developers now use V2. I'm pretty sure both are Sandboxed so it doesn't make a difference.

 

[Vixxen81]

Only for V1 Apps / Bots. Most developers now use V2. I'm pretty sure both are Sandboxed so it doesn't make a difference.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

If you're curious Motorbunny uses a Chaturbate App to display client information and a separate app to control their toys. With this solution the Model is required to share an Longpoll URL manually. This allows sending information but not receiving it. I don't know what you use for your custom app but it's likely a variation of this if it has any control over your Lovense Toys.

The important thing to consider is this isn't an in-built app or bot and instead is a custom application someone has made. Since it is a custom application it would be very easy to modify to accept responses from other sites that allow bot integration such as Joystick.tv. The functionality is in no way tied to just Lovense either if this is the case and you could use the feelperformer / feelconnect API with some modifications.

 

[Vixxen81]

If you're curious Motorbunny uses a Chaturbate App to display client information and a separate app to control their toys. With this solution the Model is required to share an Longpoll URL manually. This allows sending information but not receiving it. I don't know what you use for your custom app but it's likely a variation of this if it has any control over your Lovense Toys.

The important thing to consider is this isn't an in-built app or bot and instead is a custom application someone has made. Since it is a custom application it would be very easy to modify to accept responses from other sites that allow bot integration such as Joystick.tv. The functionality is in no way tied to just Lovense either if this is the case and you could use the feelperformer / feelconnect API with some modifications.

Maybe my guy is just a better coder than you.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

Maybe my guy is just a better coder than you.

Why would Motorbunny an established company use the same method i've described if there was no other workaround? Your response is really childish to be honest I don't know why i'm bothering.

 

[KingMarti]

Why would Motorbunny an established company use the same method i've described if there was no other workaround? Your response is really childish to be honest I don't know why i'm bothering.

Because they dont know the cb system like Vixxens developer does. Just because one person cant see the way dont means theres no way there. Someone who know's JS and someone who has a lot of time specifically in the CB api are going to be able to achieve very different things.

The reason why Lovense dominated the cam market isnt because it's a better product, it's because other sites treated cam models as a secondary market, Lovense realiszed these are the people who are going to be buying most of the toys and targeted all their advertising that way. If the fp connected toy's cared about being marketed to cam models then on the product pages for fp connected toys they would be listing out what sites they work with .... they dont you have to go digging in google to find that information, why would anyone go to that effort when they can just go to the lovense site that clearly advertises who they work with. Even now if you go to the Kiiroo sites (which is a god awful name for anyone trying to remember what the hell it's called and how it's spelled) there is no mention of which toys connect to sites, what sites they connect to, the best you get is that some of them can connect to a propritary video player and that perticaullar toy (with localized pricing at least) is double the cost of what would be spent on a lovense toy....why would anyone take a risk on something thats double the price if they dont even know if it's going to do what they need.

Also FP not intergrating properly is a big deal, even without having a nice internal API they could set up multi level tips (I know because I have done it where different tip amounts triggered different actions, from making lights flash, doing tts, and a bunch of other random stuff) so it's not they can only set up 1 tip level, it's they dont care enough about the market to make something that's a substantial product, they do the bare minimum, compare that with lovense who do IMO a lot of stupid shit with their extention, but almost anything you could think of is in there, it shows that they know providing things that make models more money keeps models buying their toys. The differance is basically a unicycle and a car, yeah they both roll but one is an eco system that you are going to get a lot more benifit out of.

I'm not a fan of lovense, I dont like their buisness practices, it's why I own as few lovense toys as possible, but one thing they do know how to do and how to do well that no one else seems to be able to get right is advertising the product features to the people that would want those product features.

Also this topic got covered to death in another thread where someone was asking what people would want from a new sex toy.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

Because they dont know the cb system like Vixxens developer does. Just because one person cant see the way dont means theres no way there. Someone who know's JS and someone who has a lot of time specifically in the CB api are going to be able to achieve very different things.

The reason why Lovense dominated the cam market isnt because it's a better product, it's because other sites treated cam models as a secondary market, Lovense realiszed these are the people who are going to be buying most of the toys and targeted all their advertising that way. If the fp connected toy's cared about being marketed to cam models then on the product pages for fp connected toys they would be listing out what sites they work with .... they dont you have to go digging in google to find that information, why would anyone go to that effort when they can just go to the lovense site that clearly advertises who they work with. Even now if you go to the Kiiroo sites (which is a god awful name for anyone trying to remember what the hell it's called and how it's spelled) there is no mention of which toys connect to sites, what sites they connect to, the best you get is that some of them can connect to a propritary video player and that perticaullar toy (with localized pricing at least) is double the cost of what would be spent on a lovense toy....why would anyone take a risk on something thats double the price if they dont even know if it's going to do what they need.

Also FP not intergrating properly is a big deal, even without having a nice internal API they could set up multi level tips (I know because I have done it where different tip amounts triggered different actions, from making lights flash, doing tts, and a bunch of other random stuff) so it's not they can only set up 1 tip level, it's they dont care enough about the market to make something that's a substantial product, they do the bare minimum, compare that with lovense who do IMO a lot of stupid shit with their extention, but almost anything you could think of is in there, it shows that they know providing things that make models more money keeps models buying their toys. The differance is basically a unicycle and a car, yeah they both roll but one is an eco system that you are going to get a lot more benifit out of.

I'm not a fan of lovense, I dont like their buisness practices, it's why I own as few lovense toys as possible, but one thing they do know how to do and how to do well that no one else seems to be able to get right is advertising the product features to the people that would want those product features.

Also this topic got covered to death in another thread where someone was asking what people would want from a new sex toy.

• Sandboxing of Chaturbate apps - There is no other way. I double checked the documentation for V1 apps / bots and like V2 apps they are Sandboxed. Of course an application can grab information from the Chaturbate page a bit like Feelpeformer or use the Longpoll JSON feed but this isn't a Chaturbate App. If you want to me to personally ask Chaturbate staff if this is possible then I can.
  
  
• The Lovense Patent - The reason Lovense dominates the market is because they obtained a patent to make sure they would be the only ones would could ever provide Tip Controlled functionality: https://patents.google.com/patent/US9762515B1/en. This patent was filed in April 2016 and before then they had absolutely no mention of Cam Models on their front page for another 2 years. They only decided to market to Cam Models after they knew they had near complete control over the market through this patent.
  
  
• Pushing competitors out using the Patent - Manufacturers who did provide tip controlled functionality such as Hismuth have been pushed out of the market because of this patent. If it wasn't for Lovense XToys would still have Chaturbate tip control functionality which would have opened an absolutely plethora of opportunities for Cam Models to play with without having to pay for custom solutions like Vixxen has. Sex Toy software has far surpassed whatever Lovense can offer now but because of this patent it has been stunted. If you google buttplug.io there are over 50 community sourced projects with integration for Video Games, Control Links for nearly all Interactive Sex Toys, Syncing Music to vibrations etc.. all of which are useless for Cam Models because they can't be controlled with Tips: https://github.com/buttplugio/awesome-buttplug without some elaborate workaround.
  
  
• Feelperformer hasn't done the bare minimum - Feelperformer have done enough for a first release to be useful for Models. They have different tip levels with varying vibrations and a working OBS overlay which is functionally identical to Lovense's at the moment. They need to introduce Control Links but the basic functionality is there. Feelconnect does have control links it's just the timer is broken for that at the moment so that's one of the points i'll bring up at the meeting
  
  
• "Also this topic got covered to death in another thread where someone was asking what people would want from a new sex toy" - If you have a link to that thread I would be grateful. The reason i'm bringing this up now is because with the release of Feelperformer in February and the introduction of proper Tip Levels, an OBS Overlay and the change of moving Feelperformer from a Mobile App to the browser things have changed and finally got the ball rolling. I couldn't get excited about other proprietary solutions like NeocamX because I know at any point Lovense could decide they shouldn't exist by enforcing their patent.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

"the best you get is that some of them can connect to a proprietary video player and that perticaullar toy (with localized pricing at least) is double the cost of what would be spent on a Lovense toy"

I really advise you actually have a look at Feelpeformer and the toys that are available to performers now: https://toys.nsfwsites.info and see what is on offer because this just isn't true anymore. I have to admit KIIROOs marketing department are on something else at the moment but they've taken on every single bit of advice i've given so far including changes to the site which should be happening soon to not lump toys into specific Gender Categories if they don't need to be.

 

[KingMarti]

That was the other issue I had, it took me damn near an hour to find the feelprformer site, I knew the toy brand was KIiroo but I couldnt remember the name of the app, but on the kiiroo site it dosnt mention that the toys even work with sites let alone what sites they work with...the whole thing is an unorganized shit show to be quite frank about it.

 

[KingMarti]

• Sandboxing of Chaturbate apps - There is no other way. I double checked the documentation for V1 apps / bots and like V2 apps they are Sandboxed. Of course an application can grab information from the Chaturbate page a bit like Feelpeformer or use the Longpoll JSON feed but this isn't a Chaturbate App. If you want to me to personally ask Chaturbate staff if this is possible then I can.

Not eveything is always found in docs, sometimes people are smart and find off the wall solutions to problems...Fact is, you have been told, by someone that has that functionality running within their own app that it is possible.

• The Lovense Patent - The reason Lovense dominates the market is because they obtained a patent to make sure they would be the only ones would could ever provide Tip Controlled functionality: https://patents.google.com/patent/US9762515B1/en (With the exception of companies such as OhMiBod that existed before them). This patent was filed in April 2016 and before then they had absolutely no mention of Cam Models on their front page for another 2 years. They only decided to market to Cam Models after they knew they had near complete control over the market through this patent.

Again the reason lovense dominates the market is because they advertised to cam models that they made toys that would make cam models more money. Their patent litrally only covers how the toy, app and extension all work together.

• 
  
  
• Pushing competitors out using the Patent - Manufacturers who did provide tip controlled functionality such as Hismuth have been pushed out of the market because of this patent. If it wasn't for Lovense XToys would still have Chaturbate tip control functionality which would have opened an absolutely plethora of opportunities for Cam Models to play with without having to pay for custom solutions like Vixxen has. Sex Toy software has far surpassed whatever Lovense can offer now but because of this patent it has been stunted. If you google buttplug.io there are over 50 community sourced projects with integration for Video Games, Control Links for nearly all Interactive Sex Toys, Syncing Music to vibrations etc.. all of which are useless for Cam Models because they can't be controlled with Tips: https://github.com/buttplugio/awesome-buttplug without some elaborate workaround.

HiSmith had to stop their tip controlled fuck machine because they cloned the extention and lovense app, like a 1:1 copy of the code.

• 
  
  
• Feelperformer hasn't done the bare minimum - Feelperformer have done enough for a first release to be useful for Models. They have different tip levels with varying vibrations and a working OBS overlay which is functionally identical to Lovense's at the moment. They need to introduce Control Links but the basic functionality is there. Feelconnect does have control links it's just the timer is broken for that at the moment so that's one of the points i'll bring up at the meeting

I would argue just having the basic functionality is doing the bare minimum.... although, the bare minimum if you want to sell to cam models would probably be advertising to cam models which they dont do...so they do less than the bare minimum I guess.

I'm pretty sure they had a rep here at one point...I dont think they even bothered to get verified as an industry rep (I could be wrong but I seem to recall someone saying they were from the company).. I think they made 1 or 2 posts and then never posted again.

• 
  
  
• "Also this topic got covered to death in another thread where someone was asking what people would want from a new sex toy" - If you have a link to that thread I would be grateful. The reason i'm bringing this up now is because with the release of Feelperformer in February and the introduction of proper Tip Levels, an OBS Overlay and the change of moving Feelperformer from a Mobile App to the browser things have changed and finally got the ball rolling. I couldn't get excited about other proprietary solutions like NeocamX because I know at any point Lovense could decide they shouldn't exist by enforcing their patent.

I cant remember what the thread was called, searching sex toy research or something should eventually find it though.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

That was the other issue I had, it took me damn near an hour to find the feelprformer site, I knew the toy brand was KIiroo but I couldnt remember the name of the app, but on the kiiroo site it dosnt mention that the toys even work with sites let alone what sites they work with...the whole thing is an unorganized shit show to be quite frank about it.

The site is definitely out of date. I've been talking with them behind the scenes and they're doing a lot of work at the moment. Since i've brought up concerns about Feelperformer and the fact it doesn't include Control Links, issues with the site etc... they have also delayed the release of a Toy which once it's released you should see is mainly intended for use by Cam performers.



As you can see the new Overlays for this Toy are out but not the product yet.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

Not eveything is always found in docs, sometimes people are smart and find off the wall solutions to problems...Fact is, you have been told, by someone that has that functionality running within their own app that it is possible.

Again the reason lovense dominates the market is because they advertised to cam models that they made toys that would make cam models more money. Their patent litrally only covers how the toy, app and extension all work together.

HiSmith had to stop their tip controlled fuck machine because they cloned the extention and lovense app, like a 1:1 copy of the code.

I would argue just having the basic functionality is doing the bare minimum.... although, the bare minimum if you want to sell to cam models would probably be advertising to cam models which they dont do...so they do less than the bare minimum I guess.

I'm pretty sure they had a rep here at one point...I dont think they even bothered to get verified as an industry rep (I could be wrong but I seem to recall someone saying they were from the company).. I think they made 1 or 2 posts and then never posted again.


I cant remember what the thread was called, searching sex toy research or something should eventually find it though.

Not really. They haven't shared any information on if they had to provide a Longpoll URL, where the application runs, if it runs as a separate application or directly from the Chaturbate Apps / Bots page. This isn't a criticism because this isn't information you would share but I don't have a clue at the moment how this application actually works so my first thought is it can't function without some other kind of functionality, because it seems impossible based on everything I know and every interaction i've had with other bot / app developers.

Oh I see, that would explain Hismuth but not XToys though. It's also why i'm sceptical of NeocamX because that seems like a direct copy of Lovense.

I have no idea what the marketing department is doing at KIIROO at the moment. It seems like they're struggling to understand what Cam Models want but this is part of the reason i'm having this meeting and asking questions to make it very apparent to them what's needed.
I'm interested in the software and the toys. If I can provide recommendations to models in spite of bad marketing I will.

They have more of a presence on WeCamGirls. I don't know why. Some Manufacturers and Cam Sites tend to pick a single forum and share their ideas there.

 

[NiomiNSFW]

"Their patent literally only covers how the toy, app and extension all work together"
I'm not a patent lawyer so I can't comment on the specifics of this but the fact that they banned XToys from using Chaturbate Tip Control functionality likely means they have the potential to prevent anyone from introducing tip control functionality if it's too similar, which for most independent developers is too much of a risk. Motorbunny circumvented this but they had to do a lot of weird workarounds.

This seems to be common knowledge as well amongst developers. I learnt this from one of the main developers and owners of Joystick.tv.
If you want more information i'd advise contacting them through their Discord. They know a lot about this. More than I am capable of explaining at the moment.

I think they have an industry rep who joined here as well a few weeks ago. Again that might just be WeCamGirls though. I can never remember.