New Service I built for camgilrs

[WebcamStartup]

Pixee is not an adult app. Posting adult content is only one of the possible use-cases (obviously this thread focuses on that), other might be: selling photos to news sites, trading college assignments etc.
From our user research, we already know people are using it for that.

So, I'm not a lawyer, but wouldn't you need a content policy stating that there's no nudity, ect. in order to stay compliant with the terms of the various app stores? I know Android/Google would at least ban this app if they saw how it was being leveraged this way, and that it was being encouraged to leverage it in this way.

From what I understand, nobody really cares about adult apps on phones, but they're fairly ban-happy when it comes to their app stores.

 

[Guy]

So, I'm not a lawyer, but wouldn't you need a content policy stating that there's no nudity, ect. in order to stay compliant with the terms of the various app stores? I know Android/Google would at least ban this app if they saw how it was being leveraged this way, and that it was being encouraged to leverage it in this way.

From what I understand, nobody really cares about adult apps on phones, but they're fairly ban-happy when it comes to their app stores.

Yes, they both have a zero tolerance policy regarding porn apps. Plus, both Apple Pay and Android Pay ban porn.

 

[DrWangFei]

Yes, they both have a zero tolerance policy regarding porn apps. Plus, both Apple Pay and Android Pay ban porn.

Not sure what Apple Pay and Google Pay have to do with anything in this conversation. But he is correct, there are apps on these stores that have "porn" on them. SnapChat, Twitter, Tumblr, etc are great examples apps that have porn content, but aren't advertised in that way... and those aren't being banned. Although I'm not aware of any that make you "pay" for content.

 

[alloy]

Not sure what Apple Pay and Google Pay have to do with anything in this conversation. But he is correct, there are apps on these stores that have "porn" on them. SnapChat, Twitter, Tumblr, etc are great examples apps that have porn content, but aren't advertised in that way... and those aren't being banned. Although I'm not aware of any that make you "pay" for content.

Very much correct. As I've mentioned, adult content is only part of the use-cases. But let's please go back to the post's origin intention - getting your feedback regarding the potential use of Pixee as a complementary tool.
What do you think regarding the freemium model? the easier payment transaction? and bottom line - the better monetization of your audience.

But if your paying girls for posting pics (when people unlock this photo) then you must have knowledge of WHO you are paying... So you would know if there were girls using this. So I'm assuming the answer is 0.

Nope, allow me to clarify. Every Pixee user can use the payout option and convert tokens to cash. How did one earn tokens? What photos were traded? That's something we do not track.

 

[EspiKvlt]

You titled this thread "new service i built for camgirls" but now you're telling us it isn't even built with camgirls in mind. It seems like you don't really know what you wanted with this, you just went with it and are trying to get anyone to use it.

(actually you titled it "new service i built for gilrs" but you know...)

 

[weirdbr]

Not sure what Apple Pay and Google Pay have to do with anything in this conversation. But he is correct, there are apps on these stores that have "porn" on them. SnapChat, Twitter, Tumblr, etc are great examples apps that have porn content, but aren't advertised in that way

Apple/Google Pay (or rather, their App stores) have everything to do with this conversation, because your average user has no idea how to side-load an application on their phone. And the terms of use of those app stores says quite clearly that adult content is not allowed; snapchat/tumblr/twitter distance themselves from adult content by having in their TOS that those are not allowed (even though for most of them they take no action against it), but if they suddenly changed the TOS to 'yes, we welcome porn' and advertised as such, Google and Apple would quickly remove the apps from their stores.

Very much correct. As I've mentioned, adult content is only part of the use-cases.

If it's an use case that you support and is accepted by the TOS, you will be banned from Apple store and Google Play store, as simple as that, unless you change the TOS + advertisement.

What photos were traded? That's something we do not track.

Yeah, good luck with that. I foresee a lot of problems for this app.

 

[DrWangFei]

Apple/Google Pay (or rather, their App stores) have everything to do with this conversation, because your average user has no idea how to side-load an application on their phone. And the terms of use of those app stores says quite clearly that adult content is not allowed; snapchat/tumblr/twitter distance themselves from adult content by having in their TOS that those are not allowed (even though for most of them they take no action against it), but if they suddenly changed the TOS to 'yes, we welcome porn' and advertised as such, Google and Apple would quickly remove the apps from their stores.



If it's an use case that you support and is accepted by the TOS, you will be banned from Apple store and Google Play store, as simple as that, unless you change the TOS + advertisement.


Yeah, good luck with that. I foresee a lot of problems for this app.

I think you need to revisit Tumblr's TOS. They do allow adult content... they even have a setting for blogs, "Flag this blog as adult-oriented".

 

[DrWangFei]

And also, Google Pay (actually it's Android Pay) and Apple Pay are apps that store credit cards and allow you to pay at certain merchants... irrelevant to this thread. Which are separate entities from Apple Store and Google Play, which is why I said that it had nothing to do with this conversation.

But like my argument was up above, Snapchat/Tumblr/Twitter... whether or not they have TOS's that allow it or disallow it... still have adult content. It's not their "primary" function as to serve as adult content carriers, but still have it. nude pics get sent on Snap Chat... porn is rampant on Twitter... porn is rampant on Tumblr (although it's ok)... but yet are still on Google and Apple stores. So, I don't see why this app (not saying that it's a good app or bad app) wouldn't fall under the same guidelines as those three that were mentioned.

 

[alloy]

You titled this thread "new service i built for camgirls" but now you're telling us it isn't even built with camgirls in mind. It seems like you don't really know what you wanted with this, you just went with it and are trying to get anyone to use it.

Can you point out something that can be added\removed\improved in order to make it more appealing to camgirls?

 

[EspiKvlt]

My point was that you're saying two different things in this thread...

 

[alloy]

My point was that you're saying two different things in this thread...

So let's make it clear - Pixee is a new way for trading photos in mobile. The photos are viewable, but with the "interesting" part being covered. The recipient gets a better sense of what he'll get, and develop a growing will to see it. The sender gets a secure and convenient way to trade his\her content. Payment transactions (in\out) are made easily.
This whole flow is designed to increase conversion rates.

The purpose of this thread is to hear your thoughts and feedback regarding a SINGLE use-case, on which you sure know much better than I do.
That's why I posted it here in the first place, and this is why I titled it aiming for camgirls (forgive me again for that typo).
I hope I'm not being too strict, and I TOTALLY appreciate everyone's feedback and the time you even put to reply. I really do. But please leave the legal\copyright\other use-cases issues aside for now.
EspiKvlt, do you see the potential it holds? would you use it with your audience? would you expect to see other features? Please shed some light using your expertise in this relevant field.

Thanks!

 

[EspiKvlt]

As someone who witnessed the rise and fall of Clipvia, the legal issues matter more to me than anything else.

 

[WebcamStartup]

And also, Google Pay (actually it's Android Pay) and Apple Pay are apps that store credit cards and allow you to pay at certain merchants... irrelevant to this thread. Which are separate entities from Apple Store and Google Play, which is why I said that it had nothing to do with this conversation.

But like my argument was up above, Snapchat/Tumblr/Twitter... whether or not they have TOS's that allow it or disallow it... still have adult content. It's not their "primary" function as to serve as adult content carriers, but still have it. nude pics get sent on Snap Chat... porn is rampant on Twitter... porn is rampant on Tumblr (although it's ok)... but yet are still on Google and Apple stores. So, I don't see why this app (not saying that it's a good app or bad app) wouldn't fall under the same guidelines as those three that were mentioned.

SnapChat doesn't allow for adult content. With Tumblr and Twitter, you have to indicate that you want to see NSFW content. The one major difference between Tumblr and Twitter is there's no payment processing for NSFW material. This is where I really wonder about this app. Especially if the payment processors catch wind of it.

To OP, does your payment processors know that you're engaging in transactions that would be considered "High-Risk"? Oh, BTW, that's why all this conversing about payment processors and app stores are relevant. What if the payment processors bossed up on you and said you could no longer provide this service to the adult industry. Would you ban every model leveraging the app? Would the payment processors no longer work with you?

As someone who witnessed the rise and fall of Clipvia, the legal issues matter more to me than anything else.

I fucking hate law, but you're 100% right. Companies gotta protect themselves. Especially with government(s) that hate the industry.

 

[EspiKvlt]

I closed my Snapchat after they explicitly stated they no longer allow adult content and said they have a legal right/ownership to every single photo and video that is posted. After I read the updated TOS, I was like "haha no" and shut mine down.

Yeah, people still use it for that, but they aren't supposed to.

A bunch of porn stars were terminated and received this message: "'We’ve determined that you have been advertising the distribution of pornographic content on your public account. We don’t think distributing pornographic content is appropriate in our community so we have terminated your account.'"

 

[WebcamStartup]

I closed my Snapchat after they explicitly stated they no longer allow adult content and said they have a legal right/ownership to every single photo and video that is posted. After I read the updated TOS, I was like "haha no" and shut mine down.

That's pretty standard. You'll see similar provisions for pretty much every social media site. It's for protection of the company and 3rd party partners. For example; A developer builds an app that leverages the Snapchat API. Certain snaps, accounts, ect. might appear on the 3rd party app. If Snapchat didn't have the rights to the content and able to extend the right to the 3rd party devs, the devs could be sued by the original content creator because the content creator did not give permission to the 3rd party devs to use their content.

YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, all of them have similar terms regarding this. Hell, even the camming sites for that matter.

 

[weirdbr]

And also, Google Pay (actually it's Android Pay) and Apple Pay are apps that store credit cards and allow you to pay at certain merchants... irrelevant to this thread.

They are relevant to a thread about an app that will do micropayments . And unless Apple has changed it recently, any micropayments on iOS apps must be through their service, which has really strict anti-adult content policies (like Android Pay does.. And about the name - I dont care if it's android pay, google pay, google wallet - they keep changing the name all the time).

porn is rampant on Twitter... porn is rampant on Tumblr (although it's ok)... but yet are still on Google and Apple stores. So, I don't see why this app (not saying that it's a good app or bad app) wouldn't fall under the same guidelines as those three that were mentioned.

Those apps remain in the app stores because they are extremely popular , so if either Google or Apple removed it from their store, there would be a mass revolt and possible fall in sales of Android/iOS devices as a result, not counting the PR disaster that it would be. On top of that, all companies involved have large deals with each other (Snapchat is a big client of Google Cloud, Tumblr is owned by Yahoo which has/had big deals with both Google and Apple, Twitter also had large deals with both...), so it's unlikely that they would do anything drastic that would affect their relationships. Plus, *none* of those products is advertised as being porn-friendly at all (I havent bothered to check the TOS of all of them in detail, but I would bet they aren't very adult friendly at all)

Now, for a small app that no one really knows/cares about, it's really easy to be banned from those app stores - there's a lot smaller/null PR risk, the app stores don't have a lot to lose...

And for the "those apps are OK with porn"/"porn is rampant on them" - it isn't that simple - primarily they don't want to nuke a lot of accounts, leading to reduced interactions/pageviews because 'number of users/visitors' are huge metrics that the market cares about. If suddenly they slashed those numbers by 30% (random number pulled out of thin air) their valuations would drop to insanely low values and it would make really hard for those companies to raise money for growth. But this doesn't mean those companies are 'porn for profit'/'camgirl'/'sexworker' friendly - you can look around and find dozens of examples of accounts being terminated, not because of porn, but because of other 'violations' of the terms of service - for example, Conner Jay's tumblr account was terminated because of 'affiliated marketing or deceptive practices'.

 

[AmberCutie]

Does it make any difference that the big apps mentioned (Twitter, Tumblr, SnapChat) are free? I mean, I guess Snap started integrating their SnapCash, so there's money involved there, but the others are completely free to use/download.

 

[EspiKvlt]

And Snapcash rules specifically state that you can't use it for adult services.

(by the way, tumblr is currently purging sex workers, so i guess it isn't much of an argument anymore...........)

 

[weirdbr]

Does it make any difference that the big apps mentioned (Twitter, Tumblr, SnapChat) are free?

To some extent it does - for free apps all that applies is the TOS of the store itself, while for paid apps the TOS of the payment service being used to purchase it applies as well. And usually payment services have considerably stricter TOS, to a point where just claiming 'the users did it, we are protected by safe harbour provisions' isn't enough.