In Hope Liberty Returns. (Ours and that of the nations)

[camstory]

Came across the below James Madison writing and thought everyone literate should read it several times, and those who aren't should have it read to them. Please take a few minutes with it, as i did to get the impact of how this understanding in 1794 so well fits our current state of affairs.


The Most Dreaded Enemy of Liberty
by James Madison.

Of all the enemies to public liberty war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded, because it comprises and develops the germ of every other. War is the parent of armies; from these proceed debts and taxes; and armies, and debts, and taxes are the known instruments for bringing the many under the domination of the few. In war, too, the discretionary power of the Executive is extended; its influence in dealing out offices, honors, and emoluments is multiplied; and all the means of seducing the minds, are added to those of subduing the force, of the people. . . . [There is also an] inequality of fortunes, and the opportunities of fraud, growing out of a state of war, and . . . degeneracy of manners and of morals. . . . No nation could preserve its freedom in the midst of continual warfare. . . .

[It should be well understood] that the powers proposed to be surrendered [by the Third Congress] to the Executive were those which the Constitution has most jealously appropriated to the Legislature. . . .

The Constitution expressly and exclusively vests in the Legislature the power of declaring a state of war . . . the power of raising armies . . . the power of creating offices. . . .

A delegation of such powers [to the President] would have struck, not only at the fabric of our Constitution, but at the foundation of all well organized and well checked governments.

The separation of the power of declaring war from that of conducting it, is wisely contrived to exclude the danger of its being declared for the sake of its being conducted.

The separation of the power of raising armies from the power of commanding them, is intended to prevent the raising of armies for the sake of commanding them.

The separation of the power of creating offices from that of filling them, is an essential guard against the temptation to create offices for the sake of gratifying favourites or multiplying dependents.

James Madison was the fourth president of the U.S. & one of our most thoughtful founding fathers, ImvhO. (Well being the 4th pres. is fact, its the other that is mvhO.)

What follows is a cStory editorial, so read at your own risk, but only after you have read the above two or three more times. (This post was motivated by the idea we might regain our lost liberty, and inspired by our own missing L.Liberty.)

Many of our liberties have been striped away in recent years, and finding no great opposition to their theft, the robbers continue their gradual treachery. Propped up and promoted by the money filled hands of the huge military corporate complex, and all those minion to it, our representatives increasingly and every more rapidly fail greatly in the description of their duties.

There will come a point, supposing it has not yet been reached, that the eventual circumstance will be an armed and violent revolution. The capable technology and power available to be called up against such revolt, and in protection of the system from which they sprung, or were corrupted by, will prove overwhelming to all but the most complete and determined effort. It seems likely that beyond this point, - the point at which our system of government is so broken that it ceases to be OUR government, and that point wherein some new just balance is found, there stands many years of suffering, hardships, and failed bloody up risings.

I fear this is the the cycle of things to continue for some time. Governments formed by bloody revolution and separation, by those abused, are in time subject to fall to the eroding forces of power and greed. A governed grown complacent and apathetic, not vigilant and alert to check such erosion's fails to break the cycle.

I don't know what we might do as individuals, but if we still stand any chance of checking the erosion that undermines our democracy by peaceful means we must stop being so apathetic. We must also view through critical eyes those forces that take from us our liberties, and hide behind shields forged of lies and hardened in fear. We must see past what is projected to us, that we learn of that which is intentionally obscured from view by those who run the show. If we do nothing else we must educate ourselves to these things and try to educate others.

I realize my commentary is a very simple outline of just part of the very complex problems that rip at the throat of who we are as a ppl. Short of a true revolution, those ideas that are capable of causing revolutionary change have never been complex, complicated, think tank ideas, but are the simple, core understandings that have provided the lever to move the weight of the static masses.

Questions: What can we do - what are our options? Of those options what do you think we are willing to do, - what are you willing to do?

 

[camstory]

Wow don't know if no one cares, or what is more likely, no one sees how wrecked our country's system of government has become. Or doesn't see it as the great trouble i do. I had hope that much of the change for the worst that took place starting in the Regan years, and then so flagrantly in the years of bush the lesser, might be reversed in the last three, (In some cases as promised) With very little exception, nothing has been reversed and adaptations to circumventing the rules that make our system run correctly, rather than be reversed continue to be used as if it is perfectly fine to change the rules as it suits whatever administration happens to be in power at the time. In our quest to stay American - the best - we have become arrogant to the point that we think we know better than any who have gone before us and can manipulate in most basic ways the structure our government is perched on and it will never fall. If the lean becomes too severe we will devise a prop to stand it back up.

We may be fucked already, but if we think these things are not that important, or think it will be fine for our capitalist ppl to be governed through the marionette strings by big business, we are most certainly fucked. (in the end a government run by its corrupt forces will be no less oppressive and less stable than that governed by the military.) It is my contention that in so very many important ways we have never been #1, but I am more concerned than most about such things as human rights, both here, but also in our foreign policy, and the preservation of the world environment. Both things that when embraced come at the cost (in the short term) of decreased GNP. If you measure a nations greatness by its GNP or its military might or half a dozen other things that a sensible person should be embarrassed to equate to greatness, than i will concede we were once the greatest nation on earth. When only one of those measures is left, and that is our ability to kill more ppl than anyone else, we have long since fallen from #1. So many screaming about immigration. Immigration is perhaps the best thing happening as it dilutes our huge arrogance with badly needed humility.

It is a sturdy structure, but take out too many key supports and it will come down on itself just like the towers.

This apparent lack of concern impacts me and my continued want to know this forum much more than any amount of deserving or not cam bashing. I think a great deal of the criticism i have received is correct and warranted. That said I think it is fucked up that no one seems to care how fucked the ppl running our house have become and with them the welfare of our house itself, yet so many are concerned with the wasted time spent on one of my fucked up post, and in that concern spend more time. But no one has the time or concern to spend a little here? WOW just FUCKING WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[sweetiebatman]

I think there's 3 things here:

1. Your posts are a little ahem, wordy. That is a imposing block of text and one which will put off the most ardent of members on here, Its not easy reading that kind of length of post on a forum. Your own commentary whist been very worthy and covering a number of key points might me above some folk bothg in therms of the wording and the interest of, and i mean that as no offence to anyone,

2. The title bears very little obvious relation to the context which might have put some folk off

3. Some people ain't American, and have little time or necessity for a constitution for a foreign country that seems to have lost sight of what actually made it great..

 

[Nordling]

Thanks Cam. a very thoughtful post.

My only answer, and it must be done with care and thought is...

OCCUPY THE VOTING BOOTHS.

 

[Shaun__]

I used to be a Republican, because of the history of civil rights they had. Then I grew up and noticed they had lost their way. So I became a Democrat, because they seemed to be interested in helping people. Then I noticed they were more concerned with getting reelected than they were about change. So this year I am voting third party for Gary Johnson. I expect him to lose terribly.

People will vote for team greed or team spineless this year like every other. Every time I point out those parties do not even pretend to support the things they say they care about to my friends, they just spout talking points or say they do not want to throw away their vote. I think voting for someone you dislike just because you do not want to be on the losing side is even more foolish.

So this year for the sake of the future I am proudly throwing away my vote, and encourage everyone else to pick a third party candidate and do the same as well. Join me in the agony of defeat to begin to break the cycle of idiocy.

 

[SoTxBob]

I have no desire to fuel the political disertation fire so I will simply agree with a lot of whats been said ....

...a constitution for a foreign country that seems to have lost sight of what actually made it great..

This so much... Washington will never be "of the people by the people". They will always be for the bucks and self serving. As far as any kind of 'revolution', bloodless or otherwise.... lol.. Americans have become far too apathetic and sheep like. We will never pull the rug out from under the powers that be simply because we don't have the balls nor the insight to find our own diet of truth and stop consuming the media pablum BS we have been raised on.

Does anyone remember a CBS TV show from a few years back called "Jericho"? I could see that actually happening more so than the probability of Washington fixing itself.


Yeah, I'm in a pissy mood today...

 

[LadyLuna]

Honestly, top-down isn't gonna work. You gotta get involved at the local level. No fucking clue how to do that.

The problem that I see is that government keeps trying to do too much. They need to get rid of most of the government programs, and let each state run itself like it used to be. Then people need to start paying attention to the state and city votes.

The other problem I see is corporate lobbying. The day they decided that companies were people was the day America signed it's death warrant. No clue how to fix that bit either.

Why didn't I answer? Cause I don't know how to fix it.

 

[Nordling]

Education is a huge part of the puzzle...and not just academic, but that too. The media has become an almost worthless source of factual information, and though the internet has factual information, it's so diluted with utter nonsense that you have to be educated on how to educate yourself before you can be educated.

Right now, what we're seeing is very similar to the "Gilded Age," where government is becoming less a value because it's bought and controlled by the robber barons. Check who was in the white house between Lincoln and Teddy Roosevelt. Almost NO ONE of those guys were substantial leaders; the Congress was the same way during that era, and it seems to be becoming much the same now. Congress is more like a private club, you go there to play golf and drink merlot.

Luna is correct, each person, if able, can only do things on a local level, but that really is the answer...if honest men and women took over every precinct, instead of paid-for hacks, it'd go a long way to make for CHANGE.

 

[camstory]

I have no desire to fuel the political disertation fire so I will simply agree with a lot of whats been said ....

...a constitution for a foreign country that seems to have lost sight of what actually made it great..

This so much... Washington will never be "of the people by the people". They will always be for the bucks and self serving. As far as any kind of 'revolution', bloodless or otherwise.... lol.. Americans have become far too apathetic and sheep like. We will never pull the rug out from under the powers that be simply because we don't have the balls nor the insight to find our own diet of truth and stop consuming the media pablum BS we have been raised on.

Does anyone remember a CBS TV show from a few years back called "Jericho"? I could see that actually happening more so than the probability of Washington fixing itself.


Yeah, I'm in a pissy mood today...

I concur there will be no revolt any time soon. things change though, and as our financial circumstances worsen and liberties are further curtailed I think there will come a time when enough ppl will begin to care that some sort of revolutionary change will take place. ppl who have lost their means of support, and also their sense of service to anything, who then are marginalized, and finally become subject to humiliation and grossly unjust treatment at the hands of the state, because of the marginalized class they feel the state has forced them into in the first place, will not remain sheepish for long. These things wont take place in my lifetime, but seem inevitable, if as you believe, there's no chance of fixing Washington.

nor the insight to find our own diet of truth and stop consuming the media pablum BS we have been raised on

This is such a huge part of the problem. In the past 20-30 years the word NEWS has drifted far from what it once meant and now as far as the main stream media goes might be interchangeable with the word propaganda.

 

[camstory]

Thank you, to everyone who posted here after my second ranting post. It all made good sense, and made me feel better. At this stage I guess it is sorta one of those, "What are you going to say/What are you going to do" subjects. As I say though, it made me feel a bit better, that i knew, that there was not total apathy out there, and also, that I was not left hanging, as i imagine most, if not all who posted, had been here once already. I am determined to do something, even if it is only to send a long overdue letter of appreciation to Rep. George Miller district congressman for my area, who's staff helped me get my disability reinstated a few years back when it was wrongfully discontinued. I will add to this my current thought to follow Shaun's idea of throwing away my vote in protest, and ask if there is anything he might suggest otherwise? I think it is most unlikely the congressman will ever see the letter himself, but I am curious to see what sort of response i get if any.

 

[Nordling]

I will say one thing. Throwing away one's vote as a "protest" is about as effective as pissing into the wind to protest the Coriolis effect.

Voting is, has been and always will be a compromise of one's values and opinions. No two humans will always agree on everything, so the best we can do is support that which comes nearest to what we hold true and to be practical about it.

 

[Bocefish]

I am determined to do something, even if it is only to send a long overdue letter of appreciation to Rep. George Miller district congressman for my area, who's staff helped me get my disability reinstated a few years back when it was wrongfully discontinued.

Ya, you wouldn't want to rush any thanks for those that cared enough to help with that red tape.

 

[sweetiebatman]

Protest votes are fucking lame..

People here in the UK in the last general election (including a massive proportion of students, whom one should never trust with anything important) Voted fucking Lib Dem as a "protest" and we ended up with a coalition between the Lib Dems and The Conservative Party, Party of the rich and the South!

Labour were poor to be honest but they had a terrible leader in Gordon Brown and were not trusted after Tony B-Liar parked his nose firmly up George Bushes ass and lead us into two unwinnable and pointless Wars under the lame banner of the "war on Terror"

I agree with Luna its on a local level we will make a difference but it is only en-masse! Hold your local representative accountable, what are they doing for you?!?

 

[Shaun__]

I will say one thing. Throwing away one's vote as a "protest" is about as effective as pissing into the wind to protest the Coriolis effect.

Voting is, has been and always will be a compromise of one's values and opinions. No two humans will always agree on everything, so the best we can do is support that which comes nearest to what we hold true and to be practical about it.

This is what I was talking about, and why third parties do so shitty in our country. We will always get the same people over and over until people start voting for something different. I refuse to be one of those guys who say both parties suck, so vote for my guy. I know being an early adopter will be defeat after defeat, but I live in a republican state and my vote never counted anyways.

 

[Mirra]

I'm pretty disgusted with US politics and global politics. I'd estimate that 2/3rds of people I talk to feel the same way. In spite of this we seem to be stuck with the same song and dance we've had for decades now. I think the average US voter feels defeated before they even start to try and change things. I'm not sure what it's like in other states, but the dominant party for my state is very good at pervading daily life and making one feel insignificant and helpless. It's alarming how much power the propaganda from both parties has on their leal sheep. And yet I find myself often doing little to change things. Perhaps I too feel defeated.

I will say one thing. Throwing away one's vote as a "protest" is about as effective as pissing into the wind to protest the Coriolis effect.

Voting is, has been and always will be a compromise of one's values and opinions. No two humans will always agree on everything, so the best we can do is support that which comes nearest to what we hold true and to be practical about it.

This is what I was talking about, and why third parties do so shitty in our country. We will always get the same people over and over until people start voting for something different. I refuse to be one of those guys who say both parties suck, so vote for my guy. I know being an early adopter will be defeat after defeat, but I live in a republican state and my vote never counted anyways.

1. If the 3rd party candidate is the person with the platform closest to your own, I don't think Nordling's statement would classify your vote as thrown away.

2. I wonder how many people in states that go towards the opposite party they would support either vote 3rd party with a similar mentality to you, Shaun, or don't vote at all thinking "my vote will not count anyhow."

3. I blend strategies. The way I describe my voting habits is "I vote for the candidate with the best chance of beating the worst candidate." The idea is that my vote is more likely to count and yet I am supporting the candidate of the two front runners with the closest values to my own. And that only applies in the final election. Up until election day, I'll support what ever candidate from what ever party if their aims align with my own... but when it comes down to the polling stations, I have to go with my strategy. So far, my vote hasn't mattered in any presidential election. My state has always gone the opposite way I vote but at least I'm making the race ever so slightly closer.

 

[camstory]

Voting is, has been and always will be a compromise of one's values and opinions. No two humans will always agree on everything, so the best we can do is support that which comes nearest to what we hold true and to be practical about it.

Yes I understand this, and very well said. But this is how things work in a system that has some chance to be influenced by ether compromise. If your convinced the system is fundamentally broken, it seems as great a waste to apply your vote for even someone you feel represents your values as best anyone might. Trying to find the right gear ratio for a given road course is always finding the correct compromise. You can find that which best matches the values of the course and driver perfectly, but if the wheels have been removed you can't win. Seems every one sitting in the stands would notice none of the cars have wheels, but apparently if the noise coming from the track is loud enough and it sounds like there going somewhere, and the report coming from the all the P.A. speakers tells of a race in progress, then most of the spectators will believe something is really happening.

Not a great analogy, but you get my point. I just think when what actually happens is so influenced by $$$ you can not have a true democracy. I don't think that is something that can be changed by voting our way out of it. When I speak of revolutionary change, it may be as simple as enough ppl getting fed up enough to vote for a third party candidate that it looks like one might have a chance to win. I don't know if that would cause the sort of revolutionary change I think we need, but it would cause some reaction, and I'm all in for anything that makes ppl take notice and maybe wake up and think a little. Until they do there will be no winners, or more precisely, the winners will be those we never knew we had entered in the race.

 

[camstory]

I am determined to do something, even if it is only to send a long overdue letter of appreciation to Rep. George Miller district congressman for my area, who's staff helped me get my disability reinstated a few years back when it was wrongfully discontinued.

Ya, you wouldn't want to rush any thanks for those that cared enough to help with that red tape.

Yes of course your right, ideally one does not wait to thank someone until they have a criticism to add. This is not exactly the case tho, as I personally, went in to Mr. Miller's office here and thanked the office staff that was there at the time, shortly after I was told my disability would be reinstated. Unfortunately there was only a volunteer manning the phones, and neither of the two main ladies who had worked with me. The volunteer was familiar with me, I having been there quite a bit in the weeks prior. I told her to pass on the thanks and that i would write a letter of thanks soon. This I failed to do.

Also to some extent i think Congressman Miller probably shares my criticism of the system, and may truly have some good ideas of how it could be changed.

P.S. I wanted to clarify that my use of "Rep" was meant to abbreviate the word Representative, not republican. George Miller was a colleague, close personal friend, and shared many values with the former United States Senator from Massachusetts (lion of the hill) Edward "Ted" Kennedy. RIP Ted.

 

[camstory]

Throwing away one's vote as a "protest" is about as effective as pissing into the wind to protest the Coriolis effect.

Use this while you can, because the way things are going, who's to say that the 24 hour day will not be rejected as incorrect, and pissing into the wind will become common practice in an effort to slow the rotation of the earth in 20 years once the spin doctors get a hold of it. :lol:

 

[Mirra]

The Spin Doctors you say?

 

[camstory]

The Spin Doctors you say?

Well they would probably need some intense tutoring to get them up to speed on foreign policy, but get them on the ballot and they have my vote. Well that is if its true that Vermin supreme didn't make the ballot, if he did I'm going for the pony and tapping the power of zombies. :dance:

 

[lexmark402003]

I used to be a Republican, because of the history of civil rights they had. Then I grew up and noticed they had lost their way. So I became a Democrat, because they seemed to be interested in helping people. Then I noticed they were more concerned with getting reelected than they were about change. So this year I am voting third party for Gary Johnson. I expect him to lose terribly.

Yup, Libertarian Governor Johnson is going to lose, badly.

But I'm still voting for him, because he's the best candidate.

I'd rather vote for a candidate I believe in and lose, than vote for the "lesser evil" and "win" (do we really win when we vote for someone we don't like, and he wins?).

Voting for the "lesser evil", in the end, is still voting for evil.

I won't do it ever again. I'm voting for the best candidate, Libertarian Gary Johnson.

 

[lexmark402003]

I will say one thing. Throwing away one's vote as a "protest" is about as effective as pissing into the wind to protest the Coriolis effect.

Voting is, has been and always will be a compromise of one's values and opinions. No two humans will always agree on everything, so the best we can do is support that which comes nearest to what we hold true and to be practical about it.

Ah yes, the old "vote for the lesser evil" bit.

I grew up Republican. I campaigned for Republicans starting in 1972 (I was 9 years old, and was putting up signs). I continued to vote for Republicans long after I realized that I did not support their extremist views on social issues. I was even a Republican delegate on multiple occasions.

In 1992, I voted for George Bush Sr. I din't like him, but I thought he was less "evil" than Clinton.

So I voted for the sorry, lame, weak SOB.

And the bastard lost.

So I sold out my principals, voted for the lesser evil, and LOST.

FUCK!

I felt like shit. Nothing sucks more than selling your soul to the "lesser evil" then LOSING anyway.

I vowed never to do that again.

So in 1996, I voted for Harry Browne, the Libertarian- a great guy. He lost, badly. But I didn't feel like shit. Actually, it felt pretty damned good. I wasn't happy that Clinton won, but at least I didn't prostitute myself to the "lesser evil."

Sure, I could have voted against my principals and picked the old, weak Republican, Bob Dole (the "lesser evil") and LOST- and felt like shit again.

But instead I had the courage to vote for what I believed in.

I learned a lesson. Nothing sucks more than voting for someone you don't believe in and LOSING. So I don't take the coward's way out anymore. I boldly vote for WHAT I BELIEVE IN rather than the "lesser evil."

I have NEVER regretted voting for the best candidate, even when I voted for a losing candidate.

So this year, I'm faced with voting for Barack Obama (a terrible President), Mitt Romney (a lame, flip flopping big spending Republican and alleged "lesser evil") or Governor Gary Johnson, the Libertarian fiscal conservative.

Am I going to vote for "lesser evil" lame SOB Mitt Romney?

HELL NO!

I'm voting for Libertarian Gary Johnson, and when Mitt Romney goes down in flames, I guarantee you, I'll be glad I did...

Many of you have no idea how liberating it is to stand up for what you believe in rather than being cowed into voting for the "lesser evil."

Go ahead and take a chance this year. Vote for what you believe in. I guarantee you won't be disappointed.

 

[camstory]

I will say one thing. Throwing away one's vote as a "protest" is about as effective as pissing into the wind to protest the Coriolis effect.

Voting is, has been and always will be a compromise of one's values and opinions. No two humans will always agree on everything, so the best we can do is support that which comes nearest to what we hold true and to be practical about it.

Ah yes, the old "vote for the lesser evil" bit.

I grew up Republican. I campaigned for Republicans starting in 1972 (I was 9 years old, and was putting up signs). I continued to vote for Republicans long after I realized that I did not support their extremist views on social issues. I was even a Republican delegate on multiple occasions.

In 1992, I voted for George Bush Sr. I din't like him, but I thought he was less "evil" than Clinton.

So I voted for the sorry, lame, weak SOB.

And the bastard lost.

So I sold out my principals, voted for the lesser evil, and LOST.

FUCK!

I felt like shit. Nothing sucks more than selling your soul to the "lesser evil" then LOSING anyway.

I vowed never to do that again.

So in 1996, I voted for Harry Browne, the Libertarian- a great guy. He lost, badly. But I didn't feel like shit. Actually, it felt pretty damned good. I wasn't happy that Clinton won, but at least I didn't prostitute myself to the "lesser evil."

Sure, I could have voted against my principals and picked the old, weak Republican, Bob Dole (the "lesser evil") and LOST- and felt like shit again.

But instead I had the courage to vote for what I believed in.

I learned a lesson. Nothing sucks more than voting for someone you don't believe in and LOSING. So I don't take the coward's way out anymore. I boldly vote for WHAT I BELIEVE IN rather than the "lesser evil."

I have NEVER regretted voting for the best candidate, even when I voted for a losing candidate.

So this year, I'm faced with voting for Barack Obama (a terrible President), Mitt Romney (a lame, flip flopping big spending Republican and alleged "lesser evil") or Governor Gary Johnson, the Libertarian fiscal conservative.

Am I going to vote for "lesser evil" lame SOB Mitt Romney?

HELL NO!

I'm voting for Libertarian Gary Johnson, and when Mitt Romney goes down in flames, I guarantee you, I'll be glad I did...

Many of you have no idea how liberating it is to stand up for what you believe in rather than being cowed into voting for the "lesser evil."

Go ahead and take a chance this year. Vote for what you believe in. I guarantee you won't be disappointed.

You make a good argument, sir.

 

[Bocefish]

Everybody should vote their their conscience. :thumbleft: Then again, look the word conscience (con science).

 

[Nordling]

Voting one's conscience is good, but if you do it without any regard to the possible outcome or RESULT, is kind of like that old pseudo-Peanuts quote:

"Doing a good job is like peeing in your pants while wearing a dark suit. If feels good and warm to you, but no one else notices." [or there is no positive outcome]

An honest conscience is one that includes both your personal views and the results of your actions.

 

[Shaun__]

A person who sided with the lesser evil still sided with evil. I do not like where my country is headed, and I will vote for the best person running. If more people would actually vote based on issues instead of for their "team" the country would be in a much better place.

 

[Nordling]

A person who sided with the lesser evil still sided with evil. I do not like where my country is headed, and I will vote for the best person running. If more people would actually vote based on issues instead of for their "team" the country would be in a much better place.

Agree. It strikes me that electoral politics is all too similar to how HS student body presidents get elected--usually the best looking jock.

I don't agree with the "lesser of two evils" proposition because I don't think both candidates, or possibly either, are actually "evil." Do they both belong to The Satanic Church? It's silly, and kind of sidesteps looking at any real issues. Because of the Electoral College, we are currently kind of stuck with the two party system we have, but if you want to bring a third party to the forefront, it can only be done by working at the grassroots level. Get your Most Amazing Party Ever elected to city or county councilman, or mayor. Elect more state legislators from your preferred party. Working this way, if your party proves itself, may eventually become mainstream...and with National candidates that can actually win.

 

[Mirra]

A person who sided with the lesser evil still sided with evil. I do not like where my country is headed, and I will vote for the best person running. If more people would actually vote based on issues instead of for their "team" the country would be in a much better place.

While I stated I will vote for the candidate with the best chance of beating the worst candidate, I don't really think of it as a lesser of two evils. Sure in essence it is the mitigation of bad but at the same time it's not that I feel either candidate is evil. I only feel that one candidate's platform is less at odds with how I feel... generally speaking. Let's call it an acceptance of imperfections. They'll always be there so I have to accept some. Last election I will admit my strategy took the vice-presidential candidates into account way more than I typically allow because I feared the stress of the job could kill McCain or some lunatic may take a shot at Obama but those were important factors for me in that election.

Speaking of the grassroots thing Nordling mentioned, I love what Ron Paul did with his campaign. While I'm not a supporter of even most of his policies I think his strategy is how it needs to happen if we're going to break out of the direction the Republicans and Democrats are trying to herd us. If one of those campaigns could get enough traction by November (and I'd be all for helping generate that traction even) for me to feel that they had a real shot at beating the other parties and their platform most resembled my own, I'd be thrilled to vote that way. It would probably be the most excited I'd felt about my vote in any of the presidential elections in which I've participated so far.

 

[LadyLuna]

In 2004, I voted and lost. In 2008, I kept my vote out of official-ness and won. My conclusion is I stand a better chance of helping if I simply pray for the candidate I want to win. *shrugs*