How can I fix this ?

[Ciresan]

Hi everyone ,

I really need help fixing this!

I'm a sex positive young gay man, who after a few drinks and honestly tired of the cespool that is Grindr hooking up decided to use streamen for the first time . I did some research to ensure they were legit and felt good about directly supporting a model. It was a lovely time and the model was a sweetheart.

However streamen have closed and banned my account and now after doing a bit of research on here I'm really worried they've banned the model too, affecting his income stream. I stupidly stupidly didn't read the term and conditions and had no idea that suggestions of or references to "daddy/son" role play was banned. I just want to make this super clear, this has a different meaning and context in the gay community and is about a dominant versus submissive roleplay. We made absolutely no reference with anything to do with age or incest ( furtherst thing from my mind!).

I don't care that much if my account is banned but I do care if this has put a models income stream in jeopardy and I feel personally responsible for this. For gods sake streamens own website has a bluddy "daddy" category ....this just seems so ridiculous. My foolishness in not properly checking the toc has now jeopardised someones livelihood and it's not fair to him.....

Im assuming streamen and streamate are the same company but if someone knows of anyway I can reach out to whoever decides these things, to explain it was not the models fault and provide some context I'd be super grateful ....

 

[Ciresan]

I will add I had no idea that the live cam "industry" was self regulated in such a strange way. I've been learning alot since browsing these forums. I assumed that it was a "safer" sexual space with the added benefit of controls ( i.e. excellent age verification systems ) and ensuring models are properly paid; but it also seems they are quite conservative and not particularly sex-postive in some contexts, which I didn't know was the case.

 

[Lintilla]

Streamen does indeed appear to be a Streamate whitelabel. Streamate is one of my main sites, so obviously I try to keep up to date on the rules. A few months ago, we models received a few messages clarifying some of those rules. This is the bit that seems relevant to your situation:

What about "Daddy," Mommy," or similar terms?​

Terms such as "Daddy" or "Mommy" are allowed and do not break any rules. These terms are used in various sexual situations and do not imply incest on their own. The important part is the context of these terms. If you or the member say or do anything that further implies you are roleplaying incest between blood relatives, non-consent, or underage sexual activity, then it has crossed the line and violates the Streamate Code of Conduct. To protect yourself, you should stop the scene. Report and block any member who tries to roleplay any banned topic.

Now, despite those sort of terms being allowed, it's still possible to cross a line, there are still incidents of models being suspended because support was not clear on what was allowed, and certain rules do seem to be applied unevenly to men vs. women. I can see the word "son" being an issue. Support might have been briefed on the "daddy" issue by now, but "son" probably doesn't come up as often in the context you used it in. On top of that, it could appear to be an age issue if it wasn't made 100% clear that the person referred to as "son" was definitely over 18--even if you didn't mention anything about anyone being underage. Support has overreacted on this before. I simply don't mess with any such terms at all, but if I did, I'd definitely be typing things like "my 21-year-old step son" for the record.

Hopefully it was just a suspension and not a ban, but in either case, support can review the relevant logs. I'm not sure if you have other means of contacting this model. We could pass along the email addresses to escalate things to a higher level if so. Beyond that, I'm not sure if it would help, but it probably wouldn't hurt for you to contact support yourself.

I will add I had no idea that the live cam "industry" was self regulated in such a strange way. I've been learning alot since browsing these forums. I assumed that it was a "safer" sexual space with the added benefit of controls ( i.e. excellent age verification systems ) and ensuring models are properly paid; but it also seems they are quite conservative and not particularly sex-postive in some contexts, which I didn't know was the case.

This a whole other kettle of fish. The adult industry self regulates in certain ways just because it's the right thing to do. On the other hand, it relies on receiving payments through the Visa and Mastercard networks, and on keeping accounts open with major banks. The result of that is... if Mastercard/etc doesn't like something, because they consider it "high risk" or because it might make them look bad, it's not allowed.

In the past few years, entire categories of content that were previously allowed have been banned, and almost every site has been forced to implement strict compliance checks on content and streams as well as more stringent ID verification requirements. Some sites are more conservative about what they will allow, either based on legal advice or threats of losing their merchant account. It's not necessarily about the industry itself being conservative. It's a total load of crap.

 

[KingMarti]

Now, despite those sort of terms being allowed, it's still possible to cross a line, there are still incidents of models being suspended because support was not clear on what was allowed, and certain rules do seem to be applied unevenly to men vs. women. I can see the word "son" being an issue. Support might have been briefed on the "daddy" issue by now, but "son" probably doesn't come up as often in the context you used it in. On top of that, it could appear to be an age issue if it wasn't made 100% clear that the person referred to as "son" was definitely over 18--even if you didn't mention anything about anyone being underage. Support has overreacted on this before. I simply don't mess with any such terms at all, but if I did, I'd definitely be typing things like "my 21-year-old step son" for the record.

It feels like it would be stupidly beneficial for support to put out a list of words that are a no go. I mean another phrasing on the daddy with a sub is the sub being referred to as boy or my boy... when I first had it mentioned on cb I assumed it was a taboo roleplay, looking more into it later I found out that it's just general phrasing on the dom/sub play. If you dont know about that being common phrasing then it's easy to mistake that for implying incest between blood relatives, since a farther would also refer to their son as being their boy.

When it comes to tos, what can be said/done I think sites need to be as clear as possible on what is and is not allowed.

​

 

[Ciresan]

Hi both,

Thankyou for the responses, it's really appreciated. I emailed support basically sending a summarised version of what I explained here ...hopefully they'll be able to give the model some grace even if I'm still permabanned, if they read the email or it even reaches them, as I'm not sure what filters there might be . I tried to explain during the live chat with support yesterday that the daddy/son thing in the gay community is a metaphor but I honestly don't think the person understood or cared about what I was trying to say.

I do think that if you go in for a reading of the text with the notion that the roleplay is inherently "dark" then some things may appear problematic. I can't remember if the word boy was used , maybe but even the word baby, which we did use in a perfectly harmless way has connotations. On top of that the model had reasonable but not a great command of English and a couple of times there were some things lost in translation that could be taken out of context. If you go in with a less bias mindset when reading the transcripts then I'm really confident it's quite obvious this wasn't what they think it was.

This was my first ever time using a cam site . And ironically the reason I chose streamen in the first place was that they made a big show about its rigour in model recruitment and things like age verification. I may have not paid attention to the TOS but I always read the 18 USC record keeping and age verification notice on any and every single adult website I visit as due diligence and am always mindful of consuming adult content with ethical intent, so this kind of thing really shocks and sucks! However I think I made the terrible mistake of not being conscious enough that I myself was engaging in the creation of online content and I think some of the overly sexualised language used in the private chat probably didn't help my case, even though it was not related to anything prohibited. I will never ever make that mistake again. I will also say that after some time spent browsing chaturbate to get a sense of what the norms are in this space; it's pretty clear that streamen is far far more regulatory.

Unfortunately I have no way of contacting the model but I hope that they can avoid the ban I received. I will keep you posted .Support was pretty by the book the first time round swiftly cutting me off and doing the whole security risk, account terminated for life blurb, which was kind of utterly terrifying when it first happened but far less so now, as even though I acknowledge I may have inadvertently violated the TOS I did absolutely nothing wrong and refused to be shamed for it!

I absolutely agree that there should be some kind of system to alert users to the rules and updates and so forth. This was an example of something that could have a very different context in a heteronormative setting compared to a gay one , and the lense which you view it can completely change intent. I would never have used this slang at all if I was made more aware but I honestly wasn't thinking and since those words are used so often in places like Grindr and in gay popular culture I totally forgot about those other connotations.

 

[Ciresan]

Do models use multiple cam sites? Is that allowed by the contracts? If so I could try to find the model in other sites, even if to just compensate him for all that time spent . It appears that if you are banned from streamen you also forfeit payments ....so I don't think he would of even got paid for all our time spent ....

 

[LaceyRoyce]

Hi both,

Thankyou for the responses, it's really appreciated. I emailed support basically sending a summarised version of what I explained here ...hopefully they'll be able to give the model some grace even if I'm still permabanned, if they read the email or it even reaches them, as I'm not sure what filters there might be . I tried to explain during the live chat with support yesterday that the daddy/son thing in the gay community is a metaphor but I honestly don't think the person understood or cared about what I was trying to say.

I do think that if you go in for a reading of the text with the notion that the roleplay is inherently "dark" then some things may appear problematic. I can't remember if the word boy was used , maybe but even the word baby, which we did use in a perfectly harmless way has connotations. On top of that the model had reasonable but not a great command of English and a couple of times there were some things lost in translation that could be taken out of context. If you go in with a less bias mindset when reading the transcripts then I'm really confident it's quite obvious this wasn't what they think it was.

This was my first ever time using a cam site . And ironically the reason I chose streamen in the first place was that they made a big show about its rigour in model recruitment and things like age verification. I may have not paid attention to the TOS but I always read the 18 USC record keeping and age verification notice on any and every single adult website I visit as due diligence and am always mindful of consuming adult content with ethical intent, so this kind of thing really shocks and sucks! However I think I made the terrible mistake of not being conscious enough that I myself was engaging in the creation of online content and I think some of the overly sexualised language used in the private chat probably didn't help my case, even though it was not related to anything prohibited. I will never ever make that mistake again. I will also say that after some time spent browsing chaturbate to get a sense of what the norms are in this space; it's pretty clear that streamen is far far more regulatory.

Unfortunately I have no way of contacting the model but I hope that they can avoid the ban I received. I will keep you posted .Support was pretty by the book the first time round swiftly cutting me off and doing the whole security risk, account terminated for life blurb, which was kind of utterly terrifying when it first happened but far less so now, as even though I acknowledge I may have inadvertently violated the TOS I did absolutely nothing wrong and refused to be shamed for it!

I absolutely agree that there should be some kind of system to alert users to the rules and updates and so forth. This was an example of something that could have a very different context in a heteronormative setting compared to a gay one , and the lense which you view it can completely change intent. I would never have used this slang at all if I was made more aware but I honestly wasn't thinking and since those words are used so often in places like Grindr and in gay popular culture I totally forgot about those other connotations.

Honestly even in hetero kink play daddy Dom play is super normal. And the lines around it seem to be super vague in certain sites. Usually it is a question of whether the scene appears to be simulating or role-playing age play.

The payment processors are the ones cracking down on us. Some of the things they remove content for are just .. nonsensical. (Ie. If I swing a pocket watch or a pendulum that's not allowed on a certain clip site now)

 

[LaceyRoyce]

Do models use multiple cam sites? Is that allowed by the contracts? If so I could try to find the model in other sites, even if to just compensate him for all that time spent . It appears that if you are banned from streamen you also forfeit payments ....so I don't think he would of even got paid for all our time spent ....

Yes we do. Many of us also havw social media. Also I think you may have missed this when someone mentioned it but streamen is just a white label. The camsite/ company your model works for is called streammate. White labels are just different "skins" basically designed to advertise the site to different audiences and earn affiliate $$$

 

[Ciresan]

SO here's the reply from support

'Thank you for your concern.Models are fully aware of what is allowed and what is not. The model team will investigate everything with the model fully and take any appropriate action needed.Please ket us know if you have any questions or if we can be of further help.'

i really hope this can get resolved for the model but also gotta be honest this whole thing feels like a rabbit hole nightmare that should of been so easily avoided ...... ....and after this weekend I don't think I ever want to use the term and all of the related jargon ever again......it feels darker and tainted now!....I'm still not ashamed of anything but this has kind of shaken me, just being associated with something so nefarious feels really unsettling ....also it's a lesson to keep my sexual expressions to the real world where there is space for nuance and mutual communication and you are less likely to be misunderstood ....I was being uncharacteristically stupid and should of been more aware of the context I was in ...i.e. the transactional nature and added power dynamics that brings on top of everything else , the communication barriers, the context of the online environment etc etc .....I just have so much empathy for the model who took me on as a client, I guess because he was so patient and focused because you could tell the financial gains the job brought meant so much to him and I really hope he's ok and I totally understand that from my own life. As a consumer of the service , the responsibility of this F up lies with me, I should of read the bluddy TOS and egotistically assumed I wouldn't need to....I just hope I've done enough to try and fix this.

 

[LaceyRoyce]

SO here's the reply from support

'Thank you for your concern.Models are fully aware of what is allowed and what is not. The model team will investigate everything with the model fully and take any appropriate action needed.Please ket us know if you have any questions or if we can be of further help.'

i really hope this can get resolved for the model but also gotta be honest this whole thing feels like a rabbit hole nightmare that should of been so easily avoided ...... ....and after this weekend I don't think I ever want to use the term and all of the related jargon ever again......it feels darker and tainted now!....I'm still not ashamed of anything but this has kind of shaken me, just being associated with something so nefarious feels really unsettling ....also it's a lesson to keep my sexual expressions to the real world where there is space for nuance and mutual communication and you are less likely to be misunderstood ....I was being uncharacteristically stupid and should of been more aware of the context I was in ...i.e. the transactional nature and added power dynamics that brings on top of everything else , the communication barriers, the context of the online environment etc etc .....I just have so much empathy for the model who took me on as a client, I guess because he was so patient and focused because you could tell the financial gains the job brought meant so much to him and I really hope he's ok and I totally understand that from my own life. As a consumer of the service , the responsibility of this F up lies with me, I should of read the bluddy TOS and egotistically assumed I wouldn't need to....I just hope I've done enough to try and fix this.

Models are aware of the rules too. Don't be too hard on yourself. It's our responsibility to follow them. He'll be ok, there are lots of other sites he can work on.

Definitely when engaging with sex workers of any kind its good to do research first as there's often lots of things we must do to stay on the right side of

If you'd like to help us fight back against the regulations that are squeezing the industry so much do some research of Fosta/Sesta and vote for politicians that fight for decimalization of all sex work. Don't buy into voting for things that are "to stop trafficking" as often these just do more harm than good even though they sound good on the surface.

 

[Ciresan]

Models are aware of the rules too. Don't be too hard on yourself. It's our responsibility to follow them. He'll be ok, there are lots of other sites he can work on.

Definitely when engaging with sex workers of any kind its good to do research first as there's often lots of things we must do to stay on the right side of

If you'd like to help us fight back against the regulations that are squeezing the industry so much do some research of Fosta/Sesta and vote for politicians that fight for decimalization of all sex work. Don't buy into voting for things that are "to stop trafficking" as often these just do more harm than good even though they sound good on the surface.

Thanks for the kind words. I absolutely would like to fight back against anything which pushes human beings into dark secret corners and seedy underbelly's where they risk exploitation and worse. After spending some time reading about sesta/fosta, it appears this is exactly what it risks doing.

As a sex positive queer person who choses to live my life as transparently and honestly as possible ( who also happens to be socially engaged ) I personally understand the power of safe spaces and openness, but I also have the privilege of living in a relatively open and affluent society ( where sex work is completely legal and unionised). Obviously it's far from perfect but the data shows we have some of the lowest rates of human trafficking in the world ( of course there is also reporting bias).......hint: we also happen to have a kick-ass woman leader .....and despite all the dramas I do applaud Streamate for having in my opinion the best age verification system among cam sites ( like I mentioned this was a huge reason for why I went with them) but that's only the first foundational pillar I think. So much more work needs to be done before we really get to a consensus model of a globally ethical sex industry with fair compensation across the board.I'm definitely interested to continue this conversation but also this may be an area I'd like to be an advocate for , in some shape or form .......I wasn't really aware of some of the cam industry specific issues untill all of this happened.....every cloud has a silver lining I guess