Don't Want To Be Known as "One of Those Fucks"

[camstory]

Don't Want To Be Known as "One of Those Fucks", as "One of the nasties at ACF", as anything like that, and I don't want to be known as someone who hangs out with mean ppl. Well, actually I care far less about what I'm known as, than the fact that I don't want to hang out with mean ppl. I PM'ed a forum member this morning, because I had not seen them here for a while. A forum member that has been here for quite a while. I basically said, 'hey good to see ya, (and jokingly added), thought you had maybe gone for good'. Well the reply was no joke, and I will share it at the end of this post. I now want to re-post a post from HiGirls. HiGirls is a forum member who I think on many things I am diametrically in opposition with, but this post I could not agree more with, and wanted it to have maximum exposure. I think it should be required reading for all forum members.

I wish people here would give new posters the benefit of the doubt again. It's getting very cliquey, and I don't like that.

QFT

I may have missed the thread that was deleted, but I've probably gotten the gist. I'd seen it happen so many times that they all kind of blur into each other. This stuff is definitely not a new or recent problem, although it might have become a more common occurrence. I am not a new member, but this is part of the reason I'd become more of a lurker.

Well, not only do I hope that everyone can settle back in to feeling comfy here, but I also hope that maybe some of the recent events and posts can lead to a bit more open-minded replies and posting in all sections of this forum.

If anything, I hope people can learn from comments that have been posted and ideas that have been shared and try to approach new people and new ideas in a more objective light as opposed to keeping with their "nope" mindset that I fear many have fallen into. I am all for camaraderie here among ACFers who have been around a long while, and a sisterhood between the models who talk regularly in the models only section, but it really would be wonderful to not become a high school clique fest here.

There will always be asshats, trolls and jerks that will get a knee-jerk reaction (and likely a quick ban) but to feel things out a bit and see how threads evolve is both interesting and conducive to a more fun and enriching environment.

Thank you Amber for this forum. I hope this does have an overall positive effect.

I stopped posting for a while, in large part because I said some dumb things that understandably hurt feelings. However, after readings some recent threads like "suggestion for models thread" where poor Malek got run out of town, as did a couple of guys who tried to defend him, I've become intimidated enough to stop posting unpopular opinions on controversial issues. Now some hazing of newbies with an attitude, or who post dumb things early on is common in most online communities. I read enough earlier threads to know, that other than new models who are treated gently, ACF has never rolled out the red carpet. I get that ACF is a sanctuary for many models in the middle of a often ugly camming world, filled with assholes, trolls, cappers, scammers, stalkers and general jerks. So it is natural that you all would be protective of the place and your fellow models. But as Marokite, LadyLuna and others are saying it has become much worse lately.

In fact, as an online community junkie for 30 years, I'd say that ACF lately is among the most hostile places I've ever seen for new guys. Which is really tragic because Amber is one of the wisest most tolerant forum admins, I've run across. Plus there are members like LadyLuna who are unfailing polite,and helpful, but still state their strong opinions in an effective manner. She has truly mastered the art of disagreeing without being disagreeable and a great role model IMO.

In the suggestion thread Rogue Warrior said “I am a much better member because of this forum. I have a much better understanding of what it takes for a model to be successful because of this forum.”, I know he is right. I think MFC and other camsites would be kinder, friendlier and maybe even more lucrative places if more MFC member got the education Rogue and I got. But if the price of education, is being wienie roasted, for saying anything dumb or ignorant, or even just strongly stating a different opinion, most guys will pass on paying the tuition.

Some time ppl will get on about something or another, and it grows to be bigger than its relevance. I try to avoid being part of the fertilizer that feeds such growth spurts. Though, in this case I do not feel this issue can out grow its relevance. Below, the reply I received this morning - it really made me stop and take account of my own actions and the fact that I may have become a little desensitized to the current hostilities.

Hey thanks buddy...to be honest...I just came into look around again. I don't really enjoy the forum that much anymore. There are a few ppl on here that make it very unpleasant. There are a lot of nice ppl as well...but their voice seems to be drowned out by the "screaming heads" I think you know a few of them so I don't have to say.

A couple of weeks ago there was a thread that went absolutely nuts on a new guy even after I tried to warn him to remove the post. It just went on and on never ending. I think that may have been the straw that broke the camels back for me anyways.

Ppl are just plain cruel on this site. They have some miserable lives or something and they take it out on ppl here too make themselves feel better or too look good in front of the others...I have no idea why. If I was a new member I would really re-think coming here to even have fun.

But I really do enjoy "inter netting" with you and few of the other ppl. Smart, funny, and some talented ppl reside here but unfortunately you can't have even a normal conversation before someone has to jump in and says something derogatory.

 

[Just Me]

Unless I am one of those screaming heads and doesn't realize it, I think some people just take things too personally. I have been a member on many different forums and I have to say this is the most benign when it comes to people being attacked for posting something. Yes, sometimes people will get called out for posting a question that has been posted and answered many times before. There is etiquette on forums just as there is in visiting a cam model. The search function is there for a reason. If you are new to a site it would behoove you to make some effort into knowing the lay of the land and what kind of site it is before posting something. Not unlike reading a models profile and seeing what the room is like before saying "open tits bb".

Another thing people take too personally is their opinion or argument being disagreed with. If you do not want that, or can not handle that, then write a blog. A forum is meant to be an exchange of ideas and opinions and as long as the words someone writes is being attacked and not the person they should be able to deal with that by replying civilly to it. I know it can be difficult not to take things too personally sometimes, take a deep breath and read again before posting a reply.

I really do not see this cruelty from people on this forum that is mentioned and I read every thread. There can be some heated debates, a lot off back and forth and a lot of sliding into off topic realms if people take umbrage to a specific part of what someone posted but I have seen very little in the way of personal attacks. When that has happened Amber has stepped in to put a stop to it.

If you are the type of person that sees every perceived slight or disagreement as a personal attack, then forums, in general, might not be the best place to hang out. I would find forums, boring and sterile places, if there was not some back and forth and arguments/debates. As long as that is part of it, some people might be offended.

 

[LadyLuna]

The cruelty he refers to is the name-calling, hating, and "You don't know what you're talking about!" without proof on the side of hte accuser either that keeps going on. We've had a few people come in with actual legit offers and be run out of the forum by the responses they got. Only the most stubborn and thick-skinned people can stand to give us another opportunity to make money, or another way to help us with the money we're already making. The only in people have to this forum anymore is to befriend a respected forum model, and have her try out whatever it is you're doing, and then post on here with her posting right after "I know this guy! It's totally legit!"

If "I know this person" isn't within the first two posts of a new person's offer, they get screamed and hazed off the board before any other models can find out for themselves. And honestly, there are a lot of models on here who don't speak out much, but could stand to use some of these services, assuming we can verify that they are legit.

I think, when a person is posting an offer, we need a plan of "attack". First step is to get the website they are claiming to represent. Second step is to send an email through the website's contact form or to the website's contact email, pointing to the thread and asking if that really is them. Then post the results on here. ONLY if the people at the website say "that's no us" can we proceed to haze the new person. However, if the website says that is them, unless the person posting on the forum delivers a DIRECT insult, we should be respectful, giving constructive criticism if necessary.

The other problem is that longstanding forum members are taking things as insults too seriously. The person will say something, someone deems it mildly offensive and responds with a string of insults and abuse, and it escalates from there. The only way to fix that is for Amber to use the doghouse if she thinks someone is flying off the handle too quickly. I don't think that's something she wants to do, so it's up to each member (blue, black, and purple), to police themselves.

So, to anyone posting here. If you are about to post in anger, STOP. Cool down. Reread the post you're responding to. Did they actually call you a name, or are you assuming that they think bad about you just because you're mad at them?

 

[Nordling]

Thank you LadyLuna, I always enjoy your posts. Plus I've more than once referenced your sig to people going crazy over what someone else has said. The "text is easy to misinterpret" part especially.

More than once I've been accused of name calling in threads and asked the accuser to show where I have done so...they weren't able to. It's all about impressions we get from text; since we can see a twinkling eye or a smile, the human mind attempts to fill in the nuance from just the text, and often fails.

Passionate debate can be great, and online, generally no one really gets hurt. It breaks down when we quit reading what other people are saying and stubbornly repeat our own points of view. Yes, I've been guilty of this. I constantly try to do better.

 

[LadyLuna]

Thank you LadyLuna, I always enjoy your posts. Plus I've more than once referenced your sig to people going crazy over what someone else has said. The "text is easy to misinterpret" part especially.

More than once I've been accused of name calling in threads and asked the accuser to show where I have done so...they weren't able to. It's all about impressions we get from text; since we can see a twinkling eye or a smile, the human mind attempts to fill in the nuance from just the text, and often fails.

Passionate debate can be great, and online, generally no one really gets hurt. It breaks down when we quit reading what other people are saying and stubbornly repeat our own points of view. Yes, I've been guilty of this. I constantly try to do better.

I decided it was time to return to having the actual links in my signature, instead of just the text.

I still wish I could remember who initially pointed out that article...

 

[JerryBoBerry]

I think, when a person is posting an offer, we need a plan of "attack". First step is to get the website they are claiming to represent. Second step is to send an email through the website's contact form or to the website's contact email, pointing to the thread and asking if that really is them. Then post the results on here. ONLY if the people at the website say "that's no us" can we proceed to haze the new person. However, if the website says that is them, unless the person posting on the forum delivers a DIRECT insult, we should be respectful, giving constructive criticism if necessary.

I totally agree with this plan of attack for some reason entirely unrelated to it being exactly what I did. :lol:
A smug and shameless example of self stroking, I know. :thumbleft:

 

[RedHerby]

Come on fuckers, stop with the drama, this is still a great forum, and given the subject of this forum it's just human that it sometimes get a bit personal.

I make sometimes a douchebag posting and then that #%$(@ of Jupiter quickly points that out

post what you think/feel, accept a correction, and enjoy this wonderful cam world.

 

[HiGirlsRHot]

Unless I am one of those screaming heads and doesn't realize it, I think some people just take things too personally. I have been a member on many different forums and I have to say this is the most benign when it comes to people being attacked for posting something. Yes, sometimes people will get called out for posting a question that has been posted and answered many times before. There is etiquette on forums just as there is in visiting a cam model. The search function is there for a reason. If you are new to a site it would behoove you to make some effort into knowing the lay of the land and what kind of site it is before posting something. Not unlike reading a models profile and seeing what the room is like before saying "open tits bb".

Another thing people take too personally is their opinion or argument being disagreed with. If you do not want that, or can not handle that, then write a blog. A forum is meant to be an exchange of ideas and opinions and as long as the words someone writes is being attacked and not the person they should be able to deal with that by replying civilly to it. I know it can be difficult not to take things too personally sometimes, take a deep breath and read again before posting a reply.

As LadyLuna says the search function really only works if you have a good idea what you are looking for. This is a function of the Vbulletin software, cause VB search isn't nearly as good as Google or Bing.

So imagine a new user like Malek joining ACF. He has number of thoughts about camming,including that girls with HD cams make more money than those who don't. So he does a bit of research before posting this revelation. First of all, he clicks on the show HD cams camera first setting on MFC and he finds that ~20% of the girls are listed as having HD cams. He noticed that sure enough girls with good feeds/cams get more money. He then checks and notices that a majority of ACF models aren't included in the HD Cam list.

So then he checks the forums. He types HD cams in the search. The search engine ignores "HD" (only two letters) so you get a list of posts that mention cam, not very useful in a forum about camgirls and camming.

He then starts browsing at the various forums. Now going back about a month I found 3 threads the mentioned webcameras, all pretty short and barely mention High Def. He also wouldn't find more than one thread about suggestions for models, the one he started. At which point he posts the suggestion that models get HD cams and he proceeds to get mocked, told to do better research and told to shut the fuck up. He says he spent 30 minutes looking for info for posting. I believe him, it took me 30 minutes to find the stuff and I knew what I was looking for.

Now I am not saying the Malek suggestion thread was good. Malek he joined March 3, posted a nice thing about Awesome Kate and Aella. He waited 5 days before starting a new thread, spent 30 minutes looking to see if the issue had been addressed. For a newbie on forum what it did is perfectly normal. Once he realized his mistake he ask for the post to be removed and appeal for less snark and more explanation. It is unreasonable on the part of forum veteran to expect any new person to behave much better.

You can’t change how people behave only how you react to their behavior. So responding with angry, sarcasm, and mocking etc. to a newbie/customer who has the audacity to make a suggestions, that yes are well known or even wrong, is going to have zero effect on future acf newbies, much less guys on MFC giving you unsolicited advice.

OK I over analyzed the thing again..

How about we just be nice to newbies, or a least give them enough rope to hang themselves.

 

[bob]

nice post, camstory :thumbleft:

 

[Throbbin_One]

Unless I am one of those screaming heads and doesn't realize it, I think some people just take things too personally. I have been a member on many different forums and I have to say this is the most benign when it comes to people being attacked for posting something. Yes, sometimes people will get called out for posting a question that has been posted and answered many times before. There is etiquette on forums just as there is in visiting a cam model. The search function is there for a reason. If you are new to a site it would behoove you to make some effort into knowing the lay of the land and what kind of site it is before posting something. Not unlike reading a models profile and seeing what the room is like before saying "open tits bb".

Another thing people take too personally is their opinion or argument being disagreed with. If you do not want that, or can not handle that, then write a blog. A forum is meant to be an exchange of ideas and opinions and as long as the words someone writes is being attacked and not the person they should be able to deal with that by replying civilly to it. I know it can be difficult not to take things too personally sometimes, take a deep breath and read again before posting a reply.

As LadyLuna says the search function really only works if you have a good idea what you are looking for. This is a function of the Vbulletin software, cause VB search isn't nearly as good as Google or Bing.

So imagine a new user like Malek joining ACF. He has number of thoughts about camming,including that girls with HD cams make more money than those who don't. So he does a bit of research before posting this revelation. First of all, he clicks on the show HD cams camera first setting on MFC and he finds that ~20% of the girls are listed as having HD cams. He noticed that sure enough girls with good feeds/cams get more money. He then checks and notices that a majority of ACF models aren't included in the HD Cam list.

So then he checks the forums. He types HD cams in the search. The search engine ignores "HD" (only two letters) so you get a list of posts that mention cam, not very useful in a forum about camgirls and camming.

He then starts browsing at the various forums. Now going back about a month I found 3 threads the mentioned webcameras, all pretty short and barely mention High Def. He also wouldn't find more than one thread about suggestions for models, the one he started. At which point he posts the suggestion that models get HD cams and he proceeds to get mocked, told to do better research and told to shut the fuck up. He says he spent 30 minutes looking for info for posting. I believe him, it took me 30 minutes to find the stuff and I knew what I was looking for.

Now I am not saying the Malek suggestion thread was good. Malek he joined March 3, posted a nice thing about Awesome Kate and Aella. He waited 5 days before starting a new thread, spent 30 minutes looking to see if the issue had been addressed. For a newbie on forum what it did is perfectly normal. Once he realized his mistake he ask for the post to be removed and appeal for less snark and more explanation. It is unreasonable on the part of forum veteran to expect any new person to behave much better.

You can’t change how people behave only how you react to their behavior. So responding with angry, sarcasm, and mocking etc. to a newbie/customer who has the audacity to make a suggestions, that yes are well known or even wrong, is going to have zero effect on future acf newbies, much less guys on MFC giving you unsolicited advice.

OK I over analyzed the thing again..

How about we just be nice to newbies, or a least give them enough rope to hang themselves.

As you know, I, as another newb, observed Malek was more sincere then not with his post, and suggested people were being a little hard on him. Little did I know, I'd be burned at the stake for that. Again, as you know, It really doesn't matter too much for me, but it surely made me feel like it wasn't fun to hang here.

It's a scary thought of how I'd feel if I wasn't a long time member of MFC, and hadn't had good experiences already. I could actually see some people being turned off if this place was their first experience with the cam modeling industry. However, that's just my opinion, and not a reason to personally attack me.

Your advice is good advice .... but be careful to give anyone advice :whistle:

 

[camstory]

Come on fuckers, stop with the drama, this is still a great forum, and given the subject of this forum it's just human that it sometimes get a bit personal.

I make sometimes a douchebag posting and then that #%$(@ of Jupiter quickly points that out

post what you think/feel, accept a correction, and enjoy this wonderful cam world.

I agree with everything here, more or less, on the more side my understanding, that I too make my fair share of douchebag post. Or worse, post that are void of any real passion.

I'm with you on posting like you mean it. One who cares with a passion about something, should not feel the need to water down the expression of that passion.

I really do enjoy tranquility & harmony, under an understanding sky, clouded with love. If it were up to me, life would be one huge reggae fest with ppl dancing, and hugging, and swaying back and forth, eyes closed, trusting in the kindness of all humanity. Expecting anything very close to that is silly, while striving for it is honorable, IMhO, where those efforts do not compromise the passions and beliefs of people. If people have to keep their strong beliefs, and passionate voice muted, - if we have to speak in only carefully, self censored, whispers, because anything more truthful and loud, might shatter the harmony, then it is a harmony not worth keeping, IMO.

I do not think one has to come at the cost of the other though. Yet it feels like that is how it works here. It feels like people get both too defensive, and are not willing to say, "yea, I did get that wrong". This forum would be more tranquil if people would be willing to sometimes drop the defense and say, "OK, I see, my bad " , or when someone says, "hey that felt a little personal?" be willing to reply, "I'm sorry, in my passion I lost sight of how that might come across from your POV, - it is how I feel, but I did not mean for it to feel like an attack on you as a person.

We live in a far from perfect world, and the perfect forum is infinitely elusive, far off on the horizon. We are imperfect, and always will be, - insistently focusing on always being right, is like gazing at the sun, it blinds us to everything else, including any vision of a better us. The quality of forum members here, and the desire to drop from sight all time consuming, energy wasting, stressful, and non productive drama, leads me to believe that with a little effort, and a bit of humility, we can look to the horizon, moving closer to a more perfect forum, and a more perfect us.

Or maybe I'm just a pretentious prick and I am leading you into my tranquility trap.