clients turned friends

[thebongcat]

Hey all, I know this has been brought up in passing a few times before, but thought it could use a thread. I (like many of you i'm sure) have some closer, more personal relationships with a few members. Sometimes when these relationships progress to this point, the members feel as though they do not need to tip anymore.

I'm wondering how you guys deal with this situation. Do you avoid "friendships" all together? Would you ever bring something like this up with a member? I feel very uncomfortable bringing this up for fear of offending or seeming ungrateful for what has been given in the past. However, I am putting in a lot of personal time maintaining these friendships offline. Recently, things have been a bit slower for me when I am online as I am a student and cannot be as consistent with camming as I would like, and feel like I am not being supported by these members who would still like for me to engage with them on a daily basis, and it is a bit frustrating. Sometimes, they won't even engage in the chat in my room.

I do enjoy making friends on MFC. I like for it to be fun and not always just "a job", and I find having friendships with member makes it a more enjoyable experience. I guess I am having trouble finding a balance. Help!

 

[BobbyB]

I can give you a members perspective.....

I am friendly with a model and that means that I am quite often in her room, but given my limited budget that also means that the tips are more infrequent,or if there is her birthday coming up I maybe not tip for a couple of days and give her a bigger birthday tip. On the other hand the model likes that I am mostly there and she has someone to talk when things are slow...

I fully understand that the models number 1 priority is to make money, so I don't expect any special attention, is more then she has time I enjoy chatting with her, but tipping members always go first and that is fine with me.....

 

[Mila_]

Hey all, I know this has been brought up in passing a few times before, but thought it could use a thread. I (like many of you i'm sure) have some closer, more personal relationships with a few members. Sometimes when these relationships progress to this point, the members feel as though they do not need to tip anymore.

I'm wondering how you guys deal with this situation. Do you avoid "friendships" all together? Would you ever bring something like this up with a member? I feel very uncomfortable bringing this up for fear of offending or seeming ungrateful for what has been given in the past. However, I am putting in a lot of personal time maintaining these friendships offline. Recently, things have been a bit slower for me when I am online as I am a student and cannot be as consistent with camming as I would like, and feel like I am not being supported by these members who would still like for me to engage with them on a daily basis, and it is a bit frustrating. Sometimes, they won't even engage in the chat in my room.

I do enjoy making friends on MFC. I like for it to be fun and not always just "a job", and I find having friendships with member makes it a more enjoyable experience. I guess I am having trouble finding a balance. Help!

Don't mix work with friendship. Look for friends in your real life if you are lonely. What you are selling as a camgirl is your time, intimacy, and attention. Give it away for free and you won't be in business long.

 

[thebongcat]

Thanks Bobby!
I think that sounds really fair, and I do realize that it's not always in someone's budget to tip. Adding to the conversation and using the public chat instead of PM is really helpful and appreciated. I wish more members would realize this. Honestly, if I have a good night of hangouts but tips have been low, I usually do a show regardless to show my appreciation for the members who took the time to chat and have fun with me

 

[MFCGod]

I am not being supported by these members who would still like for me to engage with them on a daily basis, and it is a bit frustrating

You shouldn't feel obliged to talk to people

The fact that you seem to feel obliged I think says a lot about how much of friends they really are; you may like them well enough but that doesn't mean you should have to give them all your time to the detriment of yourself

Ok maybe you give them a little more slack than you would a random person, but there has to be a line and it seems like they're crossing it atm

Liking you is a reason to tip you more, not to stop.

 

[thebongcat]

Don't mix work with friendship. Look for friends in your real life if you are lonely. What you are selling as a camgirl is your time, intimacy, and attention. Give it away for free and you won't be in business long.

Thank you for the feedback. I'm a naturally giving person and probably overly nice when I don't need to be lol! It's not that I am lonely, i'm just having a hard time balancing how much time I should spend on social media outside of camming. Especially since these are perks that these members did pay for initially (snapchat etc).

 

[Mila_]

Especially since these are perks that these members did pay for initially (snapchat etc).

Paying for Snapchat is not the same as paying for your phone number. A lifetime IM perk would cost much more than the 300 tokens they probably paid for Snapchat.

 

[thebongcat]

Paying for Snapchat is not the same as paying for your phone number. A lifetime IM perk would cost much more than the 300 tokens they probably paid for Snapchat.

That is great advice Kitsune. I have allowed members to use snapchat as a sort of messenger to chat with me, and I do respond. Like I said.. overly nice... probably don't need to be. I am going to discontinue using snapchat as a messenger for sure. Here and there, okay, but It seems I have been overly generous with my time.

 

[DarcyDelaney]

Something to think about: emotional labor is still labor. If they're not paying you for your time and feel entitled to it they're basically stealing from you. I know someone who is naturally giving can have a hard time saying no or ignoring people, but you deserve to have your time and profession respected.

 

[BobbyB]

Something to think about: emotional labor is still labor. If they're not paying you for your time and feel entitled to it they're basically stealing from you. I know someone who is naturally giving can have a hard time saying no or ignoring people, but you deserve to have your time and profession respected.

A bit over the top in my view.....

a model is selling and a member is buying, if a member expects to pay less than the model is asking for then the model can stop dealing with member at any time, see absolutely no "stealing" here, just a model in need to review her way of doing business....

 

[Gen]

Honestly, if I have a good night of hangouts but tips have been low, I usually do a show regardless to show my appreciation for the members who took the time to chat and have fun with me

That is a one-way ticket to Burnoutville, with a stopover at No Tips Town.

Giving free shows because they hung out is a guaranteed way to teach them not to tip. Why would anyone tip if they get the show *specifically* for not tipping?! It's great to have chatters; having had a small room on MFC, I get that...but why are you on camsites? To make chatting buddies or are you hoping to make some tokens?

This practice will attract the worst "regulars", guys who will never tip but then act like they're your best pal. It will not bring you tokens and eventually you'll likely burnout because you're doing all the work for none of the reward.

Also, it's not about being nice. I get sad when it's framed this way because lots of models are nice but also have boundaries. You can be the nicest girl in the world and still focus on curating the type of room and show that you want. Guys will use friendship and "I thought you were nice" to guilt you into not caring that they want to sit forever and watch these free shows, or that you don't want to PM endlessly, or don't want to give them a deal...they're attempting to use the fact that most women want to be nice and sweet against you.

 

[AudriTwo]

I'm friendly with my regs, but I'm not their friend. I do care about them, but end of the day, I get on cam to make money. Sometimes customers stop spending as less, as you tell. They sometimes feel since they gave you X amount three weeks ago, they are entitled of your attention. Of course not all customers act like this, but it happens. I have dudes who try to get me to cut my rates in half for them because they paid full price three weeks ago.

It's kinda like how some businesses don't allow your friends to come in and talk to you for hours on hours and hours. Distracting you on your job. Don't ever ever feel like you are going to offend anyone. Sometimes you have to be the mean "money whore" camgirl. If it offends and chases them away, they were never going to spend any money to begin with. Oh well, luckily there is an endless supply of horny dudes.

You need to stop performing shows if they aren't making goal. You are rewarding their nontipping presence all ready, so why would they tip for a show in the future if all they had to do is talk to you.

 

[AudriTwo]

If you don't know what your cam boundaries are, write them out. If you find yourself constantly crossing the line, put your list of boundaries in your view of your camming area as a constant visual reminder. Also will give you the confidence to stand your ground. Sometimes customers respect a model with boundaries, keeps them straight too. (Or blatant mommy issues ¯\_(ツ)_/¯)

 

[DarcyDelaney]

A bit over the top in my view.....

a model is selling and a member is buying, if a member expects to pay less than the model is asking for then the model can stop dealing with member at any time, see absolutely no "stealing" here, just a model in need to review her way of doing business....

Well, okay, maybe more an attempt at stealing my time, which I see as money, which to me feels really objectionable when they then guilt-trip me over not paying enough attention to them. When they expect something for nothing and then accuse me of being a bad, selfish person for trying to run a business, they look like thieves in my eyes.

 

[Val Vega]

If you give them the chance, clients will suck you into an emotional labor black hole. There is -never- enough for them. You absolutely should heed the advice given here, especially Audri's. I really like the idea of writing out what you are comfortable with. For instance, I hate interacting in DMs across any service; however, I do like interacting in public on my twitter. Choose the forms of social engagement that work for you and that don't lead to burnout. Set firm guidelines on what you will do as part of any personal interaction and stand your ground on them. If they cannot respect that, then they do not respect you.

 

[Phoenix4987]

We teach people how to treat us. You start giving an inch and they'll keep pushing for miles. Don't sell yourself short. You got time to turn this around and those who stay around to support you, those are the member friends you want. Not the ones continually trying to get things for free.

I'm sort of at a crossroad with a models offer for a birthday wish. She asked me if there was anything I wanted, I said just a short phone call. She said this is easy, okay. And I'm not sure if it's supposed to be like a gift from her or if I'm supposed to leave a tip or something.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

As a model with a bunch of good member friends, I feel that if they're coming to my public room or I'm spending a lot of time outside cams chatting to them (more than I would with irl friends) then they should tip unless there are specific circumstances I'm aware of.
I quit camming a while ago and many of my regulars turned into penpals, we wouldn't constantly chat, but we'd e-mail one another every now and then catching up. I was working and then travelling over that time and they have their own lives so it was more of a friendly catch up. In this time I didn't expect anything from these friends except to keep in touch, and they didn't expect anything from me either. Since returning to cams these friends will tip in my room, except for one who has had a big change in financial circumstances, though he does still tip a teeny bit and I know he would tip me generously if he could. He also never pushes for chat, we still chat but not like we used to, not because we're not close but because I don't physically have the time.
I guess in this situation it would be like a friend going to their friends restaurant all the time and expecting free food because of their friendship. If that friend was going through a really hard time financially then most friends would be happy to help them through that time (though rude if they feel entitled to it), but if they were doing well financially it'd be pretty rude and disrespectful to expect freebies just because you're friends. And even more disrespectful if the way you know that person is because you met in their restaurant.
In my experience, if they're hogging a shed ton of your free time and then not tipping you- they are not your friends. Definitely not the kind of friends you want in your life. At the end of the day you are running a business, not a charity. Making friends at work is amazing, but it's not what you're there for. If you started getting on with your boss really well it wouldn't be cool for them to suddenly expect you to work extra time for free, this is essentially what these members are expecting. You sound like a really sweet girl, and like you say you're a giver. Takers often find and exploit givers, it's a harsh truth. Fortunately on MFC there are lots of other givers, which if you free up your time a bit will be right there waiting for you.

I honestly love spending time chatting to regulars, but I also love chatting to other friends I have but don't have the time to do this. The reason I can talk to regulars so much is because they support me financially, and most of them will be chatty in the public room which makes camming extra awesome knowing they'll be there. I have had it before with regulars though who have no respect for time spent chatting. They'd tip for content or sexual skypes and would expect and take up a lot of my free time with conversations, yet wouldn't drop tips in appreciation of that. This is one of the reasons I burned out camming and had to take a long break. I understand not wanting to pay for friendship, but at the end of the day, friends only speak so much, if a member is chatting to you more than a regular friend would then they should respect that and tip you a bit more for it, not less. And if they don't rate the chats as worth it or something they enjoy enough then they should stop encouraging them or pushing for them.
Just one thing, if you do like chatting to regulars, I think a good way to do it is logging into the MFC homepage, you can have a great little chat and as you're on the homepage it doesn't feel too "off site" so keeps some of the boundaries up. Plus if you want to move away from it you just don't log in.

 

[BobbyB]

Well, okay, maybe more an attempt at stealing my time, which I see as money, which to me feels really objectionable when they then guilt-trip me over not paying enough attention to them. When they expect something for nothing and then accuse me of being a bad, selfish person for trying to run a business, they look like thieves in my eyes.

I fully understand what you mean....
In general I think a model should have a pretty clear idea what type of members she wants as a customer, and every member that is not matching her specs she should get rid off as soon as possible, better for her and better for the member, because the member can try to find a model more suitable for him.....

 

[WickedTouch]

Something to think about: emotional labor is still labor. If they're not paying you for your time and feel entitled to it they're basically stealing from you. I know someone who is naturally giving can have a hard time saying no or ignoring people, but you deserve to have your time and profession respected.

Agree with this. It's always good when a model and the members in her room have a relaxed rapport. However, no matter how nice, chatty and friendly a member is in her room, the bottom line is that their conversation alone will never help pay her bills. Personally, as an MFC member, I have found that it is always best to contribute with a few tips alongside any conversation... even if it is just for the model's time.

OP...If a member tries to play the old " I'm your friend now, so I don't need to tip" angle, then in essence they are more freeloader than friend... unless of course there are exceptional circumstances. There is no requirement for you to do a free show if you are not meeting the goal you set. Perhaps look again at your tip menu and try adding in tips for lesser items, such as flashes, teases, fan signs, dances, music selection etc to help bridge the gap when the tipping slows up. Remember, that it's your room, your place of work... where you are the boss. Be firm, hold to your targets and don't let the members guilt trip you into giving a show for next to nothing... it can set a dangerous precedent and lead to your room filling up with non-contributors.

 

[thebongcat]

Wow such awesome responses everyone! Thanks a lot, I wish I could thumbs up all your comments!

I just wanted to clarify that I don't give *free* shows just for people chatting, I just don't always have the show be contingent on the countdown, as that style doesn't always work for me. If I made 75% of the countdown and was having fun I may just go ahead and masturbate is kinda what I'm saying but not an all the time thing. I will also usually get tipped during the show.

I do think I have been investing too much time outside of the website being nice. Sounds like I need to harden up a little bit! I think you ladies are right when you say it's okay to be "mean" if that's what being firm on what you are willing to give.

Luckily this isn't all my regulars, the majority are awesome. I guess it is just disappointing because the few in question are some who have been around longer and that I would consider myself on friendly terms with. I guess it may be time to cut a few ties if it is no longer a balanced give and take.

 

[MrSwoob]

If all they give is chat, and "MFC Friendship" then why do you have to give more? It does not seem like an even exchange. MFC is about exchange, for tokens for fun, or chat to kill time. As long as there is a balance then it is a healthy relationship, unbalanced and it becomes dysfunctional. This principal applies to alot of relationships virtual and real.

 

[papichulo80]

So I generally see it as visiting a bar,
When I bartended i had a group of regs that i was friendly with, but if they were at the bar then they were drinking and tipping. I think this is a fair comparison and i follow it when i visit a chat room.
My question is where are the lines when you start talking outside the "bar" If i ever gave my personal number to a reg and suggested hanging out in a social context i wouldn't expect to be financially compensated. Is it different because it's sex work? What are the expectation when a cam model says "let's stay in touch. I'd like to exchange info and talk."
thanks

 

[thebongcat]

If all they give is chat, and "MFC Friendship" then why do you have to give more? It does not seem like an even exchange. MFC is about exchange, for tokens for fun, or chat to kill time. As long as there is a balance then it is a healthy relationship, unbalanced and it becomes dysfunctional. This principal applies to alot of relationships virtual and real.

Very true, thanks for the comment MrSwoob! Everyone is getting hung up on my comment about doing shows on slow nights haha! That isn't really something that bothers me, it usually works out in my favor, and I'm not doing shows for *free* as stated in my last comment. The comment (though poorly worded) was meant to point out that a good atmosphere in the room lends itself to more fun, even if not everyone is able to tip. I was more concerned that I was putting in too much time offline being friendly which takes way more of a toll on me to be honest. When I log on MFC I'm there to be sexy, have fun, and yes make money. It's clear now that putting in too much offline time is taking away from the camming as i'm giving too much of myself outside of MFC, and have caused a few longtime regulars to feel they no longer need to compensate me for my time. Again, i'm talking about like maybe 4 people, this isn't my entire MFC experience thankfully lol

 

[thebongcat]

So I generally see it as visiting a bar,
When I bartended i had a group of regs that i was friendly with, but if they were at the bar then they were drinking and tipping. I think this is a fair comparison and i follow it when i visit a chat room.
My question is where are the lines when you start talking outside the "bar" If i ever gave my personal number to a reg and suggested hanging out in a social context i wouldn't expect to be financially compensated. Is it different because it's sex work? What are the expectation when a cam model says "let's stay in touch. I'd like to exchange info and talk."
thanks

Yeah I think that is a great point and something I wonder as well. I don't really expect to be compensated for general chit chat and sending photos of my cat and I snuggling lol! But when it's like 6 months since you tipped anything and are till visiting the room often... AND want my chit chats?... not cool

 

[papichulo80]

100% if you're at the bar you're a customer! no question

 

[EspiKvlt]

This was the biggest mistake I made when I started camming. I had like ten "regulars" who were essentially freeloaders. They would tip me a few tokens here and there, but never enough to justify how much emotional labor I was giving them in return. I ended up dedicating so much time to them because I thought they were my "friends" that I ended up neglecting some of the bigger tippers because they weren't chewing my ear off as much.

Eventually, after my room got quieter and I realized how much emotional labor I had given away for free to these guys, I stopped allowing it. Straight up. I made a point to them that I had given so much to them, and they had given me practically nothing in return, and that I wasn't going to allow that kind of environment in my room anymore.

They immediately stopped coming to my room after that, which proved my suspicion that they didn't actually care about me, and were just using me as someone who barely knew what I was doing and would indulge their behavior. (There is also the possibility that they were taken aback and didn't want to talk to me anymore because of how harsh I was, but considering the climate of my room has always been jokingly condescending, I don't think that's why).

Just don't let people like this walk all over you, because if you do, you encourage that behavior.

 

[thebongcat]

Thanks EspiKvlt, I totally get that and have called a few people out before for sure. One of the guys in particular I have a hard time with has been quite generous in the past so I'm not sure what to do here... great tipper, seemingly nice guy turned "freeloader". I know people fall on hard times but if you absolutely cannot tip anything going on 6+ months maybe these guys shouldn't be using the website temporarily? Won't ever happen that way I know haha..but I does start to feel shitty. Like, if I'm not doing it for you anymore then no obligation to stick around. If I am doing it for you then even a small token of appreciation every once and a while is in order I think, if you are going to continue coming in the room.

 

[BobbyB]

Thanks EspiKvlt, I totally get that and have called a few people out before for sure. One of the guys in particular I have a hard time with has been quite generous in the past so I'm not sure what to do here... great tipper, seemingly nice guy turned "freeloader". I know people fall on hard times but if you absolutely cannot tip anything going on 6+ months maybe these guys shouldn't be using the website temporarily? Won't ever happen that way I know haha..but I does start to feel shitty. Like, if I'm not doing it for you anymore then no obligation to stick around. If I am doing it for you then even a small token of appreciation every once and a while is in order I think, if you are going to continue coming in the room.

My approach is when I have no tokens, to simply not log in and visit rooms as a guest,so no bad feelings of the model when I don't tip, I am just one of the anonymous freeloaders.....

 

[OldHippy]

I am definitely not a model, as a middle aged man I am more in the member’s demographic but my two cents worth anyway….

You need to ask yourself, are they really friends or are they just customers playing at being friends? My real friends know where I live, they know and talk to my other friends and they know my family. If you are not happy for a member to know all these things about you how could you consider them to be a friend?

Yes it is certainly possible to have a member model/relationship as described above where both parties share their lives equally, but often this is not really what the member or the model really wants and deep down they just want a model/client relationship dressed up in fancy clothes. If you choose to give that away for free it is up to you

 

[AudriTwo]

So I generally see it as visiting a bar,
When I bartended i had a group of regs that i was friendly with, but if they were at the bar then they were drinking and tipping. I think this is a fair comparison and i follow it when i visit a chat room.
My question is where are the lines when you start talking outside the "bar" If i ever gave my personal number to a reg and suggested hanging out in a social context i wouldn't expect to be financially compensated. Is it different because it's sex work? What are the expectation when a cam model says "let's stay in touch. I'd like to exchange info and talk."
thanks

Kinda like when a Stripper asks for your number
Either she is trying to
a) take you off site.
b) now she has your number, so she can let you know "when she is bored on cam" and you can come and tip her.
c) genuinely wants to talk more.


Sexwork is different then Vanillawork. Our time is how we make our money. Some models like to take you guys overtime. If you want her attention, sometimes you have to pay. Even if she is "off the clock."