Cam Model/Adult Internet Workers Union

[CAMabisSociety]

Good Day to all of you,

I am not certain if this subject has been brought up in these forums at any point, but I want to obtain some insight from all of the ladies working in the industry about the prospect of forming a Union or Organization for the Sole purpose of applying for and obtaining group health and life insurance and other benefits?

I have seen so many instances on my Promo Twitter timelines about model's or their children taking sick or having accidents and having to pay out-of-pocket for medical care because, as independent contractors, many of you do not enjoy traditional medical benefit programs as '9 to 5' people enjoy. Given the cost of medical services across the board, it can be crippling. Many of you are within that threshold where you are in your mid-20s and, by law, have to come off of your parent's medical plans, and it could be safely projected that most single cam models -- and many married ones -- simply do not have traditional HMO/PPO, non-Obamacare medical insurance.

I searched Google to see if they have any existing unions or organizations for your industry, and I only saw two: one for a Sex Workers Industrial Union based out of San Francisco, CA, and the International Sex Workers Union based out of the UK and focuses on merely directing their members to where they can apply for coverage independently. I also found that Austrailia and (I think) Spain also formed unions, but there is no full-functioning union or organization in the United States that exists for cam models, sex workers, and the Industry.

In 2015, as I am in the home stretch of finishing my Bachelor's Degree in Business Admin., I would love to partner with many of you ladies to gain perspectives, opinions, suggestions, and maybe even join me in researching and taking the steps to form a organization that models can choose to opt into to obtain these and possibly other benefits and programs. You are independent contractors, and it can be costly to apply for individual health insurance (for example); but as a group, the premiums are more affordable.

Right now, I am throwing around the idea so I thought I would seek expertise from a group of models all at once. And this doesn't just apply for health insurance, any programs or discounts or benefits that unions or employees of big companies could obtain should be available to you all as well. So any comments or feedback would be great. I think I know how I would begin looking into this, and it is really something I'd love to see you ladies have available.

Hope All Is Well With You

One Love.

 

[DeezNA]

I have actually been tossing this idea around with friends and fellow models for quite a while now. It's not quite as simple as just getting people onboard (as we all well know), but also the logistics of funding, distribution, demand, expected requirements and the like. From what I have heard this has been brought up in the past on the forum in other formats; the incarnation I was going to propose (given that I have substantial background in not-for-profit organizations) would be in a model-run non-profit or union.

Rather than focus on the down-sides of this proposal, I'm going to try to elaborate on the benefits that could result from a model-run support system. Just gonna list off my primary thoughts because fuck it.
- Health insurance benefits
- Mental health resources and coverage
- Financial and legal consult and resources

For this to be feasible, reliable and trustworthy, it would *have* to be run by responsible individuals: this industry has a strong tendency to attract scumbags and con-artists; there's really no wiggle room on this point. Once that is established, the models partaking in these benefits would need to be vetted to ensure they are actively working and requirements for what earns said benefits would need to be established (to ensure that the benefits are going to *working* individuals). After all that, there would be the matter of where the resources come from... This system would need to be donation-based, you're not going to get government funding for adult entertainment, corporate may be a possibility in certain realms but many models shy away from that.

The main goal, in my eyes, is to further legitimize our work and take care of ourselves and each other. For this to be plausible, we would need to take it one *small* step at a time, be realistic, work together and not get ahead of ourselves.

My :twocents-02cents: , I'm interested to see other models' thoughts on this.

 

[SexySteph]

This seems like cool in theory but I think it'd be better actualized by a well known established camgirl/camboy as opposed to a promoter.

No offense meant but I would never feel comfortable with anything like involving real life information that is being run by a cam-promoter or honestly ANYONE who isn't directly involved with the industry.

 

[CAMabisSociety]

Indeed Steph,

I am simply talking about the prospectus of organizing one and doing the research to see if it is viable. I wouldn't be involved with the administrative aspects of an organization, as I have my own small business and projects to deal with. But I certainly would love to compile the information and present it to you ladies; because I think it is do-able.

Enjoy your day Ms. Steph.

 

[DeezNA]

This seems like cool in theory but I think it'd be better actualized by a well known established camgirl/camboy as opposed to a promoter.

No offense meant but I would never feel comfortable with anything like involving real life information that is being run by a cam-promoter or honestly ANYONE who isn't directly involved with the industry.

I barely even feel comfortable giving my personal information to *anyone* in the industry, it's a big leap of trust. I actually was forced to threaten a lawsuit against some site (that shall remain nameless) that refused to delete my verification photo with myself and my driver's license. That shit can be scary but in reliable, trustworthy hands... I wouldn't have much of a problem with it.

With the whole model-run deal, I would petition that whoever was potentially figure-heading anything would be someone with a reliable track record. For instance, several models on here have organized events ranging from another model visiting to all-out extravaganzas. This only works when the host has proven that they are a professional and trustworthy, the same would have to apply here.

 

[CAMabisSociety]

My curiosity about whether or not it cane pulled off is what fuels the flames for me...once I determine the steps to pulling it off, I want to pass that off to a group of models who can take it and run with it. There most important "flane-fueler" for me is wanting to see these ladies secure these kinds of benefits. I've heard and recalled enough to know this could be HUGE for a good many model.

I appreciate the feedback so far, these are key points you two have made.

 

[SexySteph]

The only the way this would really work is in a studio scenario. It may make more sense for each girl to just get insurance.

 

[CAMabisSociety]

Even with the so-called affordable Obamacare, which really isn't so affordable, individual health insurance is skyhigh if you want a good plan.

The purpose of an union-type or organization is to qualify for more affordable coverage as a group. It would be outstanding if studios stepped up to do that, as far as I know, the studio wouldn't have any financial liability or cost. They would just need to manage premium withholdings. The HMO/PPO does the rest.

 

[PlayboyMegan]

Wouldn't camsites have to start paying minimum wage to the models if there was a union? How would that even work and what would that mean for Camming sites and people in different states and different countries where minimum wage all varies and sometimes doesn't exist?

 

[ramblin]

If you're not already familiar, it's worth doing some reading about the Lusty Lady, a unionized, and eventually employee-owned live peep show in San Francisco. It's now closed, but it was fully unionzed under SEIU. They did quite well until they were effectively forced out by the owner of all the other nearby clubs. It's obviously a different environment, but the closest I can think of offhand in the US. Starting point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lusty_Lady#San_Francisco

Edit: looks like they never did get health insurance set up though, and that it was wage-based rather than tip-based, so maybe the parallels aren't as close as they seemed: http://www.lustyladysf.com/history/

 

[JickyJuly]

How much being part of a union benefits a member relies pretty heavily on how much that person makes. With a job like camming, there are people making anywhere from under minimum wage to dream monies. On top of that, we live all over the place. Without having similar earnings and cost of living, this just seems improbable. Add in all the stuff everyone's mentioned about privacy and it's a mess waiting to happen.

 

[JerryBoBerry]

Personally I think starting up your own union or group in this situation would be incredibly difficult. What might be more of a possibility is just for interested cam models who have an interest in doing something like this, based on their own financial situation, is to join an existing union. One that might already be open to accepting them in and is currently established.

I'm not saying this one is the one to go with or if they would even accept any camming model (they do have models though), but the framework for this idea already exists. I think in America all the models are independent business owners and get 1099's. So don't think of them as 'sex workers' who need to unionize. Think of them as freelancers.

https://www.freelancersunion.org/

Freelancers Union believes all workers should have the freedom to build meaningful, connected, and independent lives – backed by a system of mutual and public support.
Nearly one in three working Americans is an independent worker. That's 53 million people – and growing. We're lawyers and nannies. We're graphic designers and temps. We're the future of the economy. Freelancers Union serves the needs of this growing independent sector. We're bringing freelancers together to build smarter solutions to health care, retirement, wage security, and other broken systems. We call it New Mutualism. You can call it the future.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/24/b...-independent-workers.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The Freelancers Union, with its oxymoronic name, is a motley collection of workers in the fast-evolving freelance economy — whether lawyers, software developers, graphic artists, accountants, consultants, nannies, writers, editors, Web site designers or sellers on Etsy.

The Freelancers Union, which is based in Brooklyn, doesn’t bargain with employers, but it does address what is by far these workers’ No. 1 concern, by providing them with affordable health insurance. Its health insurance company covers 23,000 workers in New York State and has $105 million in annual revenue. Impressed by that success, the Obama administration recently awarded Ms. Horowitz’s group $340 million in low-interest loans to establish cooperatives in New York, New Jersey and Oregon that will provide health coverage to freelancers and tens of thousands of other workers.

 

[DeezNA]

I think the biggest factor surrounding this issue is that we're trying to solve a unique quandary with already established means. As far as I'm concerned, the reason this concept gets so much flak and gets torn down before it starts is due to the filter it is being viewed through. This should not have to do with income, establishing a universal wage system, etc. The beauty of this job is that we get to make the rules, we should be using that to our advantage, not looking at problems through this filter of "how to we make it into a 'normal job'".

I can say with flat out honesty that I can provide or refer peers to *some* of the services I mentioned in my first post on this thread, free of charge, to those who need it. I know there are others out there on this forum who can and want to do the same, I see you guys all the time. The idea is to get us organized and focused on the issues that really matter and find ways to make these things work within the cam community without having to rely on outside sources. Ideally, it would be realizing more tangible ways to help each other and expand on the concept this forum was created on.

The beauty of the cam industry is that everyone is completely self-sufficient, reliant only on the site(s) they work for and whatever other factors they allow in. Camming allows control, pure entrepreneurship; a union or studio conflicts with that. I think this is why we are hitting such a brick wall with it, unions have the connotation of reform, studios have the connotation of allegiance. I'm thinking a lot more vanilla than all this.


I'm not saying the concept of an independent, non-profit, donation-funded model support system would 100% work, but the core tenets seem to be doing pretty damn well here... If we could expand upon what's already working, it would probably make everyone's lives easier.

 

[KudosKids]

It would be nice if all independent contractors could get benefits. Not just people in the adult industry. It would be even better if everyone got free health care period in the US. Sure, taxes would be higher. But its well worth it in my opinion. Considering the costs of medical bills. But at last, this is the land of the free and it comes with a HUGE price lol.

 

[JessieWolfe]

I honestly don't feel i would even have a use for joining a union... I feel a lot of models probably feel the same way.

The part i love about this job is doing everything on my own, being my own boss. I am careful handling all my finances, and any info i would need on healthcare/taxes/etc is mostly on this forum if I search for it.


edit:: Also, when i had ppo health insurance, it was actually more expensive than the health insurance i searched for and bought on my own which i thought was odd.

 

[Alexandra Cole]

I was thinking of the Freelancers Union as a model too, but it's worth bearing in mind that they've been forced to drop the health insurance component.

 

[LucyStarx]

I like the idea of a union, but I'm not sure health insurance is that plausible due to previously states reasons. What about a sort of union to push the camgirl pay cut up a bit? If you're signed under a studio, you could be making 20% of less of what you earned, and even the best paying high traffic sites top out around 35%. Of course there is a lot of money spent by the site on promotion, ads, customer service, etc. But I'm sure if the numbers were crunched, us getting 35% still makes them a pretty hefty profit.. Just a thought.

 

[Ann_Sulu]

I think it's a good thought/start, but I don't think it's quite the way to go. The out-in-the-openness needed to make sure dependant and other claims are verified and non-fraudulent would create an "information swell" and anyone who has to deal with that information becomes "pregnant" with that. Basically this industry just does not make it viable because of how secret that information is should it get leaked or misrepresented.

It is noble, and I'd love to collaborate with anything involving sex workers and their rights; however maybe not a union. From what I've seen and heard the main problems with camming (family or no) is being turned down by people for things because they think the occupation is illegal where it isn't. I've heard nightmares of cammers being turned down by tax places for instance who assumed they would get in trouble for doing their taxes for them. Also I don't know how a union would help other than in the US...and even then I don't know if it's exactly what's needed.

Camming is a freelance job, and like every other freelance job you're not going to get any job benefits like medical.

Honestly, if it's a union; it should be a union for independent contractors, not just cammers. Also, if it's independant contractors it adds to anonymity; which is what many cammers need.

 

[Sansa]

Honestly, if it's a union; it should be a union for independent contractors, not just cammers. Also, if it's independant contractors it adds to anonymity; which is what many cammers need.

That, exactly. It's not just camgirls/guys who need insurance or benefits, but a number of other people who do independent work. There are actually SO many jobs where people work on their own or with a small group (wedding planners, landscapers, I could go on and on). It would be nice if there was some option to join, perhaps by county, and as long as someone is making a certain amount, they'd qualify and whatnot.

 

[eyeteach]

I honestly don't feel i would even have a use for joining a union... I feel a lot of models probably feel the same way.

The part i love about this job is doing everything on my own, being my own boss. I am careful handling all my finances, and any info i would need on healthcare/taxes/etc is mostly on this forum if I search for it.


edit:: Also, when i had ppo health insurance, it was actually more expensive than the health insurance i searched for and bought on my own which i thought was odd.

I don't have a dog in this fight but I can honestly say that there just aren't enough thank buttons to properly give JessieWolfe's reply the thanks it's due.

 

[tubecamgirl]

if the numbers were crunched, us getting 35% still makes them a pretty hefty profit..

An oligopoly cam site can give 35% because cam sites are not subject even to antitrust laws. Let's one internet/phone provider get 80% of the market, it could cut payout to its providers as they wished, as the only route for them to the final customers. But antitrust would come and split that company in pieces. In case of cam sites, there's those 3-4 top ones who if agreeing as a cartel, can do what they wish.

 

[TicTacToe]

I have so many qualms about this that I don't even know where to begin. Let's try to keep it in a neat list format shall we?

1) Unions are cesspools of charlatans. They are ultimately run like mafias. The corrupt leader of the union rattles the cage with absurd entitlement mentality to gather useful idiots he will then use to his advantage for political gain. The fact that it is an outsider, someone who has NO TIES to the cam community who brings this up only underlines this fact.

2) In theory a union is just there to protect the interests of a group of people who work in the same trade. That is the dictionary definition of the term. But to my knowledge there is no such a thing as "The Independent Worker Union" and those who claim to be are not really unions but associations, with as much gravitas as the French Antiques Advisory Committee. Because unions ultimately are about EMPLOYEES and LEGISLATION. About forcing companies to give workers employee status, and benefits that come with such status like minimum wage, better working conditions, health insurance etc.

Now this might sound wonderful to some but the sex industry by its very nature relies on us models being independent contractors, not employees. If our status changes owners (of strip clubs, peep shows, webcam sites, you name it) would change their business model. A strip club owner could choose, for instance, to offer lap dances for free in his club, since strippers are now employees with a minimum wage, they have to perform at no additional cost. A peep show owner could decide that since all the girls are employees the tips should be placed in a communal pot to be distributed equally like they do in countless restaurants. The list goes on. And because unions are about legislation, what they usually aim to do is to make it pervasive... in this case, to make it impossible for ANY clubs to operate under a different arrangement (i.e.: all strippers must be employees)

Sex workers who slack a lot will think Benefits! Minimum wage! Sign me up! but what they miss the concept that as employees they will be tied up by a schedule and they will have to put in the hours, etc. So smart sex workers do not consider a union a wonderful idea. And before you reply to my post saying that "we wouldn't necessary try to get employee status or min wage, but we would get representation and better conditions" well, I do not need representation, I do not need others speaking for me, and I am happy with the current situation where I am free to do as I please without having to worry about a boss. If I wanted a boss and benefits I would go 9-5.

3) I owe my income to webcam sites so I want webcam sites to flourish. I want Chaturbate to be successful. I want Streamate to be successful. I want MFC to be successful. Because my income depends on it. If they fail well... there goes my income. I do not feel comfortable rattling cages and forcing them to do costly shit against their will just because I feel entitled. I want to earn my privileges. I want to earn my health insurance and pay for it with my money. I want to earn whatever it is I need. That is exactly the reason I entered this business: so I could get shit for myself without having to depend on anyone else. CB, MFC, etc etc are a wonderful SPACE to do that in, but they are not my parents and I do not expect them to clean after me.