A different approach to date raffles

[Jupiter551]

We've discussed date raffles and sex raffles before, but I haven't come across this til today. I stumbled across a model who sells HD vids of herself via tokens, by giving two week access to her site where the vids are hosted. Also there she does group shows for members 3-4 times a week, and every few weeks (she drew one tonight and said next is in about 3 weeks) she has a raffle to which every member of her site gets one ticket, and can buy extra tickets if they wish.
She picks out two names and I think a third if one of the first two can't make the travel date/location, and they go out to a nice restaurant for a couple of hours, the two members and the model and have a nice dinner.

Then, they have a threesome on video, (the guys are masked and/or blurred faces) and it's uploaded to her video section on the site. She has like 3 or 4 threesomes on there from winning members.

I thought it's quite an ingenious system, I like the circular nature of it - member buys videos, goes to site, enters raffle, two members win the raffle resulting in another video...etc.

Also, here's the reason models need to get transparent plastic chairs, I've never seen anyone do this before but it was slightly awesome.

 

[bawksy]

I hope prostitution is legal in her jurisdiction, because that's what this is. If it's not, then this system is only a good idea until local police take an interest. Or until enough guys like this win the raffle.

 

[LailaBaise]

I like the chair.

 

[Anonymous]

Damn, her members must LOVE her raffles since they get the ultimate experience! I wish her the best and hope she is careful and safe. That chair is pretty awesome, by the way.

Oh, and I agree with bawksy, which I guess means that the world is coming to an end today or something...lol.

So I'm gonna assume that any model doing a 'Fuck me in person' raffle will NOT get offended the next time a random member asks "How many tokens to fuck you in person, bb?"

 

[southsamurai]

if it works for her, then mad props! dont know that it would be considered prostitution in most states of the US, though theres probly plenty of DAs that would try to get her on it. usually there has to be a direct exchange of monies for sex with no intermediary to get a conviction, and adding in the filter of internet commerce to it would make prosecution a nightmare since interstate law is a bit of a sinkhole when there isnt murder or kidnapping behind the drive.


btw i happen to be behind the principle of legalizing prostitution, and the whole prostitution subject is off topic anyway, so sorry for the derail there jupe.

 

[Jupiter551]

Prostitution is not illegal in France, where I believe she is.

Anyway, how is this prostitution, yet doing porn isn't? there's nothing on any of her stuff about meeting for money, or tokens. As far as I know she's raffling a prize, which is to star in a threesome video with her and the other winning member. Granted the video may entail having sex, but that still just makes it interactive amateur photography.

I took it that she's a swinger, and saw an opportunity to indulge in the kind of sex she enjoys (different men, strangers etc) while at the same time making content for her site and rewarding its members. I think it's smart, and definitely bold.

In her own words, translated by the intuitive and inspired google translate, she says:

My name is ____ and I am a true unconditional amateur sex! I like the exhibition, sensuality and sex of any kind! I made ​​this website to share my taste sex with you! If you make use of my subscribers privileged, you have the right to my photos, my videos, my custom liveshows alone with you, my liveshows group, and real encounters. know and I want to share my experiences, that is how I take my pleasure.

So what's with the stigma of the P word anyway? I knew when I posted this it would turn into a chance for people to say how they felt about "prostitution" which is exactly why I didnt post her name in this thread, so that one of her members etc don't google her and find this it.

There seems to be a bit of disdain for escorts, which I think is unfair since camming is another type of sex work that is frequently judged by other people.

And no probs South, you didnt start the prostitution debate.

 

[Anonymous]

Bawksy never said anything negative about the model, or about "prostitution," and neither did anyone else so far in the thread.

Prior to you telling us that she's in France, I was just thinking that she should be careful with how she words the details of her raffle, because if the police can arrest consenting adults on Craigslist for providing sexual services for cash (which is silly to me...who the fuck cares if money was given...they're consenting adults, so leave them alone!), can you imagine all the fuss when more and more people find out about this model's raffle? If she happened to have any stalkerish trolls in her room, they'd probably have a Field Day with that information. I was gonna say if she had simply stated it's a 'Hang out with me in person, and watch me film a sexy video' raffle, that would probably be safer. And of course any fucking that takes place - rather than publicly announcing on her profile/room topic that it's a 'Fuck me in a threesome' raffle - she could just smile and wink, and tell the winners that "whatever happens happens" or something.

But now that you've said she's in France, that is a relief, so we don't have to worry about her getting in trouble anyway.

Like I said, I hope it works out for her, and that her experience is a pleasant and safe one.

 

[IsabellaSnow]

It does seem weird that in the states there is a massive porn industry, yet you're not allowed to have sex for money.... umm.....

Lol I'm sorry I just can't help but imagine the awkwardness between the two chosen members! I mean they both want to fuck/meet this model, but then there's going to be some random stranger present who is also going to fuck this girl... lol maybe it's all cool, but I'd imagine that could be pretty awkward!

Out of curiosity, how many of you guys would go for this?

Like if I said "Hey Jupiter, come have sex with me on camera! Oh yeah, and you'll also be sharing me with bawksy so you'll get to see double the nakedness!" But then replace Bawksy with a perve off the net that you don't know at all. Does anyone here think that they could actually go through with it?

Go for it for the people who might be up for it! But man this would be a funny sitcom situation!

 

[southsamurai]

i've had my fill of 3-ways (and 4 plus ways too at that) so i wouldnt really jump at it. but tbh i probably wouldnt have sex with most of the models here or on the sites one on one in general either... not a prude, not saying negative things about models, i am a huge fan and proponent! it would ruin the fantasy part of it for me (mind you, i dont perv on cam sites very much anyway) and im so old and busted up that i'd prefer to just hang out and swap stories with any of the models i know well enough to consider sleeping with regardless of the circumstances.

despite all that, if it's jupe thats the other guy, im down for it as long as i get to be on top

 

[TacoBelle]

Samurai, I know this is off topic, but every time I see your picture, I think of Kevin Smith. And now, all I'm picturing is Kevin Smith in some crazy and hilarious orgies.

 

[southsamurai]

Samurai, I know this is off topic, but every time I see your picture, I think of Kevin Smith. And now, all I'm picturing is Kevin Smith in some crazy and hilarious orgies.

lmmfao! i always get kevin smith or mario batali . which is okay since i love kevin's movies and comics, and i cook about 2/3 as well as mario ok i cook as well as mario, but as soon as i brag about my food to someone the next time i cook i screw up so im not going to jinx myself

 

[bawksy]

Anyway, how is this prostitution, yet doing porn isn't?

In porn, nobody is paying to participate. But yeah, there's a pretty fine line, the definition of which varies by local laws.

I wasn't judging her. I was just pointing out it could be illegal depending on where it was happening.

 

[Just Me]

Anyway, how is this prostitution, yet doing porn isn't?

In porn, nobody is paying to participate. But yeah, there's a pretty fine line, the definition of which varies by local laws.

I wasn't judging her. I was just pointing out it could be illegal depending on where it was happening.

In most, if not all US states this is covered under the 1st amendment. If it is being filmed and distributed it is considered free speech.

 

[bawksy]

In most, if not all US states this is covered under the 1st amendment. If it is being filmed and distributed it is considered free speech.

Says the armchair lawyer. Cite references please.

 

[southsamurai]

first off a quick reference to the central and important porn related legal decisions:
http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/por ... -obscenity

miller v california is the case most cited when defending porn as free speech as i understand it

Hudnut v. American Booksellers Association, Inc., 771 F.2d 323 (7th Cir. 1985) reinforces the miller decision and rejects the idea of porn being inherently discriminating against women in a legal sense

Reno v. American Civil Liberties Union, 521 U.S. 844, 117 S. Ct. 2329, 138 L. Ed. 2d 874 (1997)
covered the basis of net based porn and if it is or is not obscene legally

an important note is that any porn depicting children, or portraying adults as children is not protected by the first amendment. there is a recent case that ruled the same for "virtual" kiddie porn, and thank the gods for that.


since this isnt a legal review forum i'll stop there, but now we have references for the legal side of things lol

 

[Nordling]

Totally guessing, but I want to suggest that the reason she has two winners for a threesome is, that even if one of the guys is a serial murderer or something, the other guy likely is somewhat normal and would give a bit more security.

 

[MemberEd]

Im thinking thats a phoney raffle. I suspect finding randomly selected members that would be able to peform on video without suffering some sort of peformance anxiety is pretty slim. With it being a strange woman and another man who is a complete stranger? I don't think so. Not to mention explaining the trip to wives or girlfriends.

 

[Jupiter551]

Totally guessing, but I want to suggest that the reason she has two winners for a threesome is, that even if one of the guys is a serial murderer or something, the other guy likely is somewhat normal and would give a bit more security.

That occurred to me too, or it could (in some ways) make the encounter less intense than a one on one, and likewise she probably has other people in the restaurant and/or helping with the videos
She said she spents part of the year in France, and she also said she spends some in Miami.

 

[SaffronBurke]

Im thinking thats a phoney raffle. I suspect finding randomly selected members that would be able to peform on video without suffering some sort of peformance anxiety is pretty slim. With it being a strange woman and another man who is a complete stranger? I don't think so. Not to mention explaining the trip to wives or girlfriends.

I'd imagine the folks entering the raffle would be aware of the winnings, and into sex with strangers. Some people really get off on it, some get skeeved out by it. Plus, they'd get to brag to their friends that they were in a porno with some hot chick. And given the amount of guys that comment on how they should start camming because it's so easy (to their eyes), the fact that they're not actively being watched by anyone in person, or even live, probably helps to relieve performance anxiety a bit.

 

[MemberEd]

Im thinking thats a phoney raffle. I suspect finding randomly selected members that would be able to peform on video without suffering some sort of peformance anxiety is pretty slim. With it being a strange woman and another man who is a complete stranger? I don't think so. Not to mention explaining the trip to wives or girlfriends.

I'd imagine the folks entering the raffle would be aware of the winnings, and into sex with strangers. Some people really get off on it, some get skeeved out by it. Plus, they'd get to brag to their friends that they were in a porno with some hot chick. And given the amount of guys that comment on how they should start camming because it's so easy (to their eyes), the fact that they're not actively being watched by anyone in person, or even live, probably helps to relieve performance anxiety a bit.

I thought I read something about every member of her site automaticity being enter in the raffle.
Even though everything you said is true, I still don't belive this is a real raffle but it would add new meaning to the phrase "I got lucky" :twocents-02cents:

 

[Jupiter551]

I thought I read something about every member of her site automaticity being enter in the raffle.
Even though everything you said is true, I still don't belive this is a real raffle but it would add new meaning to the phrase "I got lucky" :twocents-02cents:

Except I was in the drawing for the raffle yesterday, one of the people drawn can't go, but all three were there and active in chat. If the video doesn't work out I guess she doesn't post it, or posts pics. The guys were all chatting though and clearly not her, if it's a set up it would seem easier just to do it legit - not like she's paying for their travel, it's all voluntary.

 

[bawksy]

but now we have references for the legal side of things lol

I understand (most) porn is legal in the USA. Your references certainly back that up. Although based on some further research, it appears porn production is only legal in California and maybe New Hampshire right now. I'm having trouble finding a reliable reference on that though.

In any case, what I'm skeptical about is the assertion that filming an encounter with a hooker automagically turns it from prostitution into pornography. In most porn films, including the one in the Miller case, both actors get paid. In the raffle scenario, one person is paying, and the other gets paid. That's a huge difference, and could matter based on the local definition of prostitution.

I found a decent article that gave an analogy of someone filming a drug deal. The filming of the drug deal is protected under first amendment right to free speech, but the drug deal itself is still illegal, and one person can be busted for selling drugs, and the other for purchasing/possessing drugs. It doesn't suddenly become legal just because it's in front of a camera. In the same way, it may be legal for these people to film their act of prostitution, but it doesn't necessarily immunize them from the act of prostitution itself.

 

[Jupiter551]

Well it says the winner will participate in a soft or hard photoshoot or video, so maybe they could say it was just for nudity and if sex happens it happens, dunno if that would help. I think they'd have to take her to court to prove it's not porn if she pays taxes as a webmistress selling the videos online - there'd be plenty of evidence that there is actually porn produced,

 

[Just Me]

but now we have references for the legal side of things lol

I understand (most) porn is legal in the USA. Your references certainly back that up. Although based on some further research, it appears porn production is only legal in California and maybe New Hampshire right now. I'm having trouble finding a reliable reference on that though.

In any case, what I'm skeptical about is the assertion that filming an encounter with a hooker automagically turns it from prostitution into pornography. In most porn films, including the one in the Miller case, both actors get paid. In the raffle scenario, one person is paying, and the other gets paid. That's a huge difference, and could matter based on the local definition of prostitution.

I found a decent article that gave an analogy of someone filming a drug deal. The filming of the drug deal is protected under first amendment right to free speech, but the drug deal itself is still illegal, and one person can be busted for selling drugs, and the other for purchasing/possessing drugs. It doesn't suddenly become legal just because it's in front of a camera. In the same way, it may be legal for these people to film their act of prostitution, but it doesn't necessarily immunize them from the act of prostitution itself.

I don't think it was asserted that filming an encounter with a hooker automatically turns it into porn. Intent matters. Also, as to a payment aspect, a lot of the porn produced these days the person paying the actresses or actor is involved in the sex as well. There is quite a bit of so called gonzo porn out there and is popular. Maybe they skirt that issue by paying from a company or something. I really don't know. They can also try to protect themselves by saying the contest is just to meet them and what happens between consenting adults afterwards is up to them. :twocents-02cents:

 

[Anonymous]

So maybe they could say it was just for nudity and if sex happens it happens

They can also try to protect themselves by saying the contest is just to meet them and what happens between consenting adults afterwards is up to them. :twocents-02cents:

I swear I just said this earlier in my previous post. Y'all did see that, right?

 

[rexcode]

I understand (most) porn is legal in the USA. Your references certainly back that up. Although based on some further research, it appears porn production is only legal in California and maybe New Hampshire right now. I'm having trouble finding a reliable reference on that though.

California is currently the only state where there's an established precedent making porn production legal (subject to ever increasing restrictions). The case in New Hampshire is of some interest to the discussion here: someone in NH offered a couple $50/hr to film them having sex. He was charged with soliciting prostitution, but the NH Supreme Court ruled that 1) filming the sex was merely exercising his First Amendment rights, and 2) "there was no evidence he was satisfying his own sexual pleasure". This ruling is somewhat similar to the 1988 California ruling that put porn production in the clear there, but as far as I know there's no porn industry in NH to test this.

Porn production in tolerated in some states even though there's no existing precedent making it clearly legal. Besides California, the top states for producing pornography are Florida, Nevada, and Arizona.

 

[zippypinhead]

Remember, though, that precedent in common law tends to extend across state lines unless otherwise explicitly nullified by statute or other precedence. This means that what's been found constitutional in New Hampshire will generally be afforded the same protections in Delaware or Indiana or Oregon or wherever else. There are specific laws on the books regarding the regulation of porn production in California because that's where the vast majority of the for-profit porn industry exists. To California, it's an actual economic resource, and is treated as such. However, don't think for a minute that porn isn't being made in every other state in our great nation. Yet, to my knowledge, there's never been big porn production stings or raids going on around the nation. Law enforcement doesn't tend to make targets of people who will almost surely win in court.

As to the original concern, she's covered in two regards. First, she could say that she's raffling off a "date", and second, she could say that she's raffling off a guest role in a porn production. Both are not illegal, whether they paid entry or not. "Win a date" contests happen all the time, and there's an entire genre of porn, really popular ten or fifteen years ago, where porn stars fuck their fans. In either case, the people aren't paying for sex, they're paying an entry fee for a contest. We can call that creepy if we're feeling uppity and judgemental, but I don't think we could call it illegal.

 

[southsamurai]

very true that porn isnt explicitly legal except in a few places. as far as i have been able to find it isnt explicitly illegal in many either, and as far as i could find no state has a law on the books directly prohibiting it unless it involves kids. mind you shuffling through state laws is like searching for the word porn itself on the net, way more hits than you can filter thru yourself usually. i sent an email to an entertainment lawyer im aquainted with, maybe he'll be able to let me know something more specific.

 

[Zoomer]

Totally guessing, but I want to suggest that the reason she has two winners for a threesome is, that even if one of the guys is a serial murderer or something, the other guy likely is somewhat normal and would give a bit more security.

If she's really a swinger, she may even have her significant other there... he may enjoy it. Who knows.

 

[RoseCavilla]

but now we have references for the legal side of things lol

I understand (most) porn is legal in the USA. Your references certainly back that up. Although based on some further research, it appears porn production is only legal in California and maybe New Hampshire right now. I'm having trouble finding a reliable reference on that though.

In any case, what I'm skeptical about is the assertion that filming an encounter with a hooker automagically turns it from prostitution into pornography. In most porn films, including the one in the Miller case, both actors get paid. In the raffle scenario, one person is paying, and the other gets paid. That's a huge difference, and could matter based on the local definition of prostitution.

I found a decent article that gave an analogy of someone filming a drug deal. The filming of the drug deal is protected under first amendment right to free speech, but the drug deal itself is still illegal, and one person can be busted for selling drugs, and the other for purchasing/possessing drugs. It doesn't suddenly become legal just because it's in front of a camera. In the same way, it may be legal for these people to film their act of prostitution, but it doesn't necessarily immunize them from the act of prostitution itself.

If I were a hooker, I would probably send the guy home with a pen or cheap poster and say the money he gave me was for that.

I've heard of people reselling no-resale-or-else-we'll-sue-your-ass tickets that way. "Pay just $200 for this pen and we'll send you a free pair of tickets!"


On an unrelated noted... Bawsky! Where were you in the "I NEED CAMGIRLS THREAD"? I can't speak for everyone, but I missed you.